HNT Editorial: Flamers, trolls, and alienation
Hey everybody, happy HNT (a.k.a. Half-nekkid Thursday).
Mark Twain once said "A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get his boots on."
Have you ever posted an HNT photo and gotten 20, 30, 75 positive comments and then out of the blue you get one dead-flat insult? Ever felt so sick and ashamed you wanted to pull all your photos and shut down your blog, maybe with a final comment blaming that one negative voice? Ever spent all morning composing your hurt and defensive reply only to find that everyone else in comments has already defended you and called the guy an asshole?
Even worse, have you ever overlooked all the glowing comments and believed that one negative remark? Could they alone be telling the truth? Don't worry about it, usually something else is going on.
Let's talk for a minute about Internet Trolls.
In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages on the internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants. It can also be used as a verb, meaning to post such messages, and "trolling" (the gerund) is also commonly used to describe the activity.
The contemporary use of the term first appeared on Usenet groups in the late 1980s. It is widely thought to be a contraction of the phrase "trolling for suckers", itself derived from the sport fishing technique of trolling. The latter can be compared with trawling, of which it is a near homophone.
The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning, drawn from the "trolls", which are portrayed in Scandinavian folklore, and children's tales, as often ugly, obnoxious creatures that are bent on wickedness and mischief. The image of the troll under the bridge in the "Three Billy Goats Gruff" emphasizes the trolls' dislike of outsiders within its physical environment, particularly those who intend to graze in its domain.
Users may have various motives for trolling. A common factor for many is the desire to draw attention to the troll. Inflammatory, sarcastic, disruptive or humorous content is posted, meant to draw other users into engaging the troll in a fruitless confrontation. The more attention the troll's activities draw from users, the more persistent the troll's behavior in the forum. This gives rise to the often repeated protocol in internet culture: "Do not feed the trolls."
Every now and then some young internet arsonist decides it would be fun to toss a match into someone's comment section just to throw everyone into a tizzy. They think it's funny watching everybody else flame up in your defense They'll think it's funny you maybe shut down your whole blog except for a note mentioning them.
After spending nearly 20 years on the internet watching flamers and trolls wreak havoc and I'd hate to see them figure out HNT. A lot of us feel really put ourselves out on the line by posting our photos and as a result we're particularly vulnerable to negative comments. Sooner or later trolls are going to find HNT and they can have a lot of fun at our expense if we let them. On the other hand there's no reason to let them. I've got a little suggestion.
I'm not a big fan of deleting comments we disagree with but I make a big exception for trolls. They don't care about you one way or the other. They just enjoy the way one lie makes everybody stop what they're doing to get their boots on.
If you get a big fat negative comment that goes against the majority of your other comments don't bother responding, it only encourages them. Save your friends the trouble of defending you because that only enourages more trolling. Don't worry they might be the only one willing to tell the truth. They're not. They're trying to provoke a reaction. The best way to discourage them is to delete 'em and enjoy the rest of your day. (If you're not sure or you want a little reassurance ask a friend or drop me a line.)
It's going to be a beautiful day on the internet. Seems like it always is on Thursdays. Happy HNT.
Update: Lisa of Bored Housewife had this to say in comments.
I experienced that exact phenomenon just last week. I have a tradition of posting braless pictures of myself on Tuesdays and I happened to get about 10,000 hits on the very next post...obviously, many of them scrolled down a bit and a few of them took it upon themselves to tell me how disgusting they thought I looked...It was rather traumatic for a few minutes (ok, maybe hours...) but then I realized (just like you said) that they were in the minority and just trying to be hurtful. I have had a policy of never deleting comments, nor have I banned commenters, but I started to that week. It gave me that sense of control back--it is MY blog after all, and we should all remember that.
Good for her! There's no way to get back those traumatic "minutes (ok, maybe hours...)" and no real way to get back at the trolls who zinged her. But here's the thing. Take a look at that right-wing asshat who said Jennifer Aniston's breasts are ugly because all women are over the hill by age 19 or so. Took him two seconds to pull his head from the warm, roomy recesses of his ass to write before returning to his little brown playroom and a week later there are still people fretting about it around the blogosphere. Never mind that he'd likely crawl on hands and knees for a chance to touch *any* woman's breasts if he thought he had a prayer that they'd let him. Someone told me James Joyce made Ulysses hard to read because he wanted people to work as hard reading as writers spend writing. Well, why hold trolls to a higher standard? Why waste more time reacting than they did writing? Click delete and waste even less!
oooooo.... love those legs... I like your writing too btw. Would love your input on my new blog at www.arenaxxx.com/blog or at www.unshroud.com
Annette
[Sorry I didn't see this post earlier, Annette. Thanks. --fl]
Gotta love a man with nice thighs!
[Thanks, Wenchy. --fl]
Great pic! And a good editorial.
Happy HNT!
[Thank you, Butterfly. --fl]
Bravo, once again!
[Thanks, Obasso. --fl]
Well Said. Great Pic. Happy HNT
[Thank you, Furzl. --fl]
Amen.
And hallelujah to that picture. Oh God. The first time I glimpsed a man's package under his shorts like that, I thought it was the hottest, most blindingly sexy thing I had ever seen.
I still do.
Thanks, darling.
*fanning self*
;)
[Eek! It's too late now, and I'm not really upset, but I didn't notice the slip either. Thanks, DTG. --fl]
DTG xxoo
Nice angle :) HHNT
[Thanks, Leesa. --fl]
don't let that idiot get u down! they're just jealous. btw great legs! happy HNT =)
[Thanks for the encouragement, Libraaaa. Pass it on. --fl]
Hate trolls.
Love the gap in your shorts!
[Thanks, Gigi. I meant to have a gap. Just not that much. Should have previewed it better but I'm glad people don't mind. Thanks again. --fl]
*Sigh* (first time commenting here) - it's all about your forearms Figleaf ... Thanks for writing!
[Thanks, Katy. Other people have said nice things about my arm so I'll aim higher when I pick something for next Thursday. --fl]
Oh figgy!!!
Thanks for that insightful look into the ass holes that mold the ying to our yang.
Happy HNT honey!
[Hey EN. Who knew I'd still be brooding over your comment kerfuffle weeks later? :-) Take care. --fl]
Ah, guys never seem to notice that gap in the shorts. I saw my first peer-group testicle through some baggy gym shorts in high school. My husband, of course, displays himself regularly when his boxers are askew.
It's oddly intimate, the peek in the shorts...
[Yup. We think we're all tidy and everyone else is looking up at the ceiling or something. :-) Thanks, Orange. --fl]
Woo, nice legs. I love a man with some calves on him;) Happy HNT, FL!
[Thanks, Camogirl. (I always think I have weird little stick legs so coming from you I really appreciate that.) --fl]
Nice legs! I love boxers on a man!
Great post too...fortunately, I haven't been the victim of negative comments, but I'm sure it will happen someday.
Happy HNT!
[Thanks, MammaK. You'll know what to do. (Cute kids, by the way.) --fl]
I experienced that exact phenomenon just last week. I have a tradition of posting braless pictures of myself on Tuesdays and I happened to get about 10,000 hits on the very next post...obviously, many of them scrolled down a bit and a few of them took it upon themselves to tell me how disgusting they thought I looked...It was rather traumatic for a few minutes (ok, maybe hours...) but then I realized (just like you said) that they were in the minority and just trying to be hurtful. I have had a policy of never deleting comments, nor have I banned commenters, but I started to that week. It gave me that sense of control back--it is MY blog after all, and we should all remember that.
Great post, great legs--
[Thanks Lisa. Take a look at that post I did a couple of days ago about the guy who says women are over the hill by age 19 or so. Zero clue. Took him two seconds to pull his head from the warm, roomy recesses of his ass to write before returning to his little brown playroom and a week later there are still people fretting about it around the blogosphere. Never mind that he'd likely crawl on hands and knees for a chance to touch *any* woman's breasts if he thought he had a prayer that they'd let him. Look at it another way: Someone told me James Joyce wrote Ulysses the way he did because he wanted to make people work as hard reading it as he did writing it. Well, why hold trolls to a higher standard? Use no more effort responding than they do into writing. Click delete and you can spend less! :-) Good for you! Thanks. --fl]
Love the picture, Figleaf. The gap was the first thing my eyes went to. And you have really nice legs too. Yoga is great for the legs.
I have a distinct memory of seeing a boy in school sitting in almost the same position, with almost the same gap. My first view of boy-bits. I've been straining for glimpses of them ever since.
I won't say how young I was for fear you'll think I am a total perv. Or is it entirely too late for that?
Thanks for the picture and the anti-troll reminders.
[You'd only be a total perv if you'd had to say "I won't say how *old* I was." :-) I'm getting over my chagrin. (I came so close to changing the photo after the first comment.) Thanks, aag. --fl]
I've gotten a few 'clucks' from women who think sexy pictures aren't appropriate. Nothing like "Your tits suck!" or anything, but still...it's MY blog. It's MY body. Go watch FoxNews if you can't take it.
[Oh bother, Mona, I haven't seen any inappropriate pictures to cluck over. Should I go back and look again? :-) Thanks, Mona. --fl]
Thank you for your efforts in Troll hunting. You make the world a better place and so does that shot!
Happy HNT!
[Thanks, SignGurl! --fl]
I find the first one a compliment. It means your special enough to piss people off. After that? I block and delete them.
Fuck 'em I say.
Happy HNT, of course.
[Good on 'yer, Autumn. Thanks. --fl]
You are correct, Figleaf. There is no need to reply to the trolls. It gives them a power they really do not possess unless we hand it over to them.
It's one thing to delete comments that take opposing views to your writing, though if it's my blog it is within my scope to do so, but if someone says something meant to inflame and hurt, hitting delete is the best way to go.
Happy HNT, Figleaf.
[Oh yeah, I take a dour look at people who ignore or, worse, erase honest disagreement. Trolls are more like spammers though. Thanks, Tess. --fl]
Oh, i needed a beautiful sight to see to brighten a rainy dreary day! Thanks!
[No problem, Lydia. Thanks yourself. --fl]
just spent the past 30 minutes.... browsing your flicr pics... mmmmm
i love the way you present your pics... very tasteful, and very hot! nice body... no! Sexy body
Wow, thanks for taking the time to look, Needra. --fl]
Well spoken and well reasoned. Happy HNT. I'm sure you have just brightened many others Thursday.
[Thanks, Tommy. --fl]
What I find particularly alluring is that you retain your composure so well through all this fawning...
And I can NOT believe I didn't notice the peep show portion of the picture. And frankly, I still can't see it well enough. I'm suing Lasik. Or maybe I'll just fuss with my monitor.
[Yeah, I don't know where the composure thing comes from. I get flattered and flustered by people's comments but I feel like I always come out sounding like a travelog narrator. Thanks for coming back for a second look, Lisa. --fl]
I have been fortunate so far and haven't had a negative comment posted... but i'm sure it would send me reeling...
love your photo... as always... and your post is just icing on the cake.
[Don't let it send you anywhere, SS, unless everyone else agrees. Which they won't. Send 'em to the delete bin instead. Thanks for your kind words. --fl]
I was hoping for fringe around your john thomas, but the batik boxers work even better, in a Pacific Northwest kind of way.
Thanks for the glimpse of the goodies.
[Thanks, CG. Glad I didn't chicken out. --fl]
Okay -- that's somehow just too hot for words.
HHNT.
[Thank you, Robin. --fl]
A great editorial on the trolls mate. I haven't be unlucky enough to have one yet but I have defends others from their lecherous comments before. I agree...delete and forget.
Great HNT...thankfully I was too busy thinking what cool boxers they were to notice the now famous "gap"...not that I would have been embarrassed or anything...I'm secure in my sexuality and all that *cough* *adjusts self*
Happy HNT ;)
[No problem, Paul. As Chelsea Girl says you can find shorts like those at all the food co-ops and street fairs in the Northwest. --fl]
ASSHAT! LOL! Love that word. I haven't experienced trolling yet. Maybe it's so obvious that my blog sucks that no one needs to troll it. :)
[Um, Spanky, we gotta have a little talk. First of all the peope who like to troll for entertainment haven't found HNT yet. (When they do they'll announce it to each other on their trollish little forums -- yikes.) So it's not that your blog sucks. Also, your blog doesn't suck, so no more of that self-deprecation now, y'hear? :-) Thanks. --fl]
Wonderful post, Figleaf.
And of course I have to put my 2 cents in. Trolls are indeed the scourge of the internet. I put them along the same lines as spammers and phishers. I really hate the thought that there are people out there who out of 200 comments that say "Great" and they blush and giggle and say thank you, get a troll comment and all of the sudden they freak out and pull the plug on everything. I've been on the internet in one form or another for 15 years. Trolls exist. They get their kicks looking for a reaction. It was my concious and fully formed decision that I would have to put up with the little buggers again some day. I haven't had to deal with them yet, but I'm sure it's just around the bend. And the thing to remember is YOUR reaction gives THEM a thrill. I'd prefer to disappoint them. So delete them. It really does help if you picture them sitting at their computers, getting their kicks making people mad or sad, and hit that lovely delete button and visualize them disappearing. At least, that's what I used to do on Usenet.
Love your legs, you know that ;) Happy HNT, Fig. You make the internet thoughtful.
[You've so got that right, DN. Totally spot on. Thanks! --fl]
I've noticed a few flammers around who seem to try and hit everyones sites, just to spread their misery around. Glad you're saying something about it.
Now, if you'll just move those boxers over...just a little....
HHNT!
[You mean to cover up? Hey, I'll move mine if you'll move yours. Thanks, QoA. --fl]
Very good post AND photo! I thought it was only ME who let that one negative comment ruin my whole day. I have since learned to delete them and not worry about them and now I very rarely get one. Which is good. Happy HNT!
[Hey, Melanie. You're so *not* the only one. --fl]
A troll ditty
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Internet Troll
thinks it's terribly witty
and clever for causing such fuss
but really it's droll
and believes that it's shitty
it's not part of The Glorious Us
it is lacking a soul
and worthy of pity
to delete it
and don't feed it
is far more magnanimous.
ps) nice view there, Tiger.
[Thanks, Jill! --fl]
Yeah, trolls are scum, but unfortunately there's not much to be done beyond ignoring them and sometimes nuking their comments.
The problem is that these guys appear according to the "Law of Large Numbers", which for social purposes can be summarized as "there's one in every crowd". That is, any Internet forum is exposed to a potentially huge number of people. Very few of those are truly nasty, vicious people... but large numbers counter long odds (another restatement of the LoLN), so eventually you'll have to deal with one.
oh my
Nice pic.... Just as they all have been these last months. It's too darn easy to 'forget' the positive and supportive comments. I think troll's timing has almost more impact than what they say. Just gotta try & figure out why they somehow manage to find vulnerable moments so effectively. Wish I could say I couln't relate, but unfortunately I can.
May the force protect HNT from the trolls... :)
[Hey Patty! I saw you'd pulled the plug right after I made my post and felt like maybe I'd posted too late. I'm so glad you're back. A lot of people really appreciate your blog and it would have been a shame for you to go dark just because a couple of fuckwads decided to break a little glass in your backyard. I thought your partners "she'll do no such thing" post was so cute (in a dom-ish sort of way.) Good for him. Good for you. But here's the deal, Patty. You're now innoculated. If you see someone else losing heart after a couple of trolls, let 'em know you sympathise and tell 'em how you dealt with it. It's not that you shouldn't feel hurt -- we're only human -- but it shouldn't end there. It's human to get pissed off and do something about it too. :-) Take care, --fl]
Well said! I got a lot of wonderful comments during my virgin HNT this week, but I will keep your thoughts in mind if I ever get a troll on my blog.
By the way, that was me (not Ti) that was talking about getting turned on by HNT. :) We have a joint blog - we're a 2-for-1 deal!
[Aha! I misunderstood. When a title says something like "Ti: what do you think..." it's you addressing her. Nice blog by the way. Thanks for stopping by. --fl]
I guess it's everybody's perogative to their comments and opinions.
But if one lets a negative comment override the rest of the positive remarks, it just shows how much self confidence that person have, isn't it?
[Thanks, I8. --fl]
ah i know the feeling dear - everyone's favorite anon asshole poster "mad_jack" has taken me on as the representitive of HNT to bash - this went as far as to take some of my images and distort them and several posts about how much he hates hnt. i however, understand that this man was to spank it on a nightly basis and know why he is so upset about everyone's nekkidness - because no one wants to see him naked in his outta blog life - so i'm just going to take it as pitiful.
but thanks for the encoragment.
[Thanks, F-Mom. Yeah, when you track these types down you almost always walk away feeling more pity than anything else. Sorry this one picked you. Glad he picked someone with a stern enough constitution not to take him personally. Good for you. --fl]
I don't disagree for a moment about the need to delete that sort of comment; I've always been ruthless about deleting anything that attempts to drag down my body-positive, sex-positive, kink-friendly editorial tone.
However, I don't think these commenters are, for the most part, actually trolls in the technical sense; i.e., that they are firstly motivated by the desire to stir the shit.
Awhile back I posted some public nude shots of Kirsten Dunst, and attracted a whole host of folks commenting on how ugly her breasts supposedly are. What's up with that?
What I've learned running a sex blog is that there are a whole host of guys (they're always male) whose only mode of discourse about bodily appearance is to make a negative comment. I think that originates in adolescent one-upsmanship; one guy says "Sally's hot, I'd like to do her" and the other guys all say "No, man, she's a pig, she's got a huge ass" as a way of belittling the first guy.
However it started, the result is a fairly large class of guys whose reflex response whenever they see an erotic picture is to say something mean about the body depicted.
It's clearly an act of emotional aggression, some sort of attempt to establish superiority by expressing contempt for that which other people consider beautiful. But it's *much* more common than true internet trolling, which is a deliberate attempt to incite lots and lots of frenzied reaction.
Now having said all that, I'm convinced the only appropriate response is to delete those sort of comments as fast as they appear. I think I deleted nearly a dozen nasty remarks about Kirsten Dunst's appearance after I posted her bathing suit failure photos, and she's pretty by any reasonable standard.
[Hey Bacchus. I agree that the classic internet troll only flames for sport but I think there's room under that bridge for the kind of... um... orcs you're talking about. You're *definitely* onto something though -- some guys (and you're right it's almost always guys) react to something they can't have by getting angry or acting as if they wouldn't want it. I remember this guy in college who was just so bitter about not being able to get a girlfriend. One day he's sitting in the rec center in a total blue funk about it and this really, really cute girl stops and says "Oh X, you look so sad" and he looks up at her and says "Yeah, well what the fuck are you going to do about it?" I dunno. It's one thing to contruct your own Hell but it's beyond senseless to try to drag other people into it. You can't delete guys like that in real life but whether you want to call them trolls, orcs, or everyday assholes you can sure as hell deep six them online. Let 'em start their own damn blog and stew in that. Thanks, Bacchus. --fl]