Greener on the other side, yes, but how much grass would you really eat?

I would say it depends on the partner, and what exactly was agreed upon.
I wouldn't ever give into a 1 sided agreement, for instance. And even agreements that are mutual, long-standing and pretty straightforward get lost in muck. So I'd have to say it really does depend on the partner and what was agreed upon.

[Thanks, DN. --fl]

I couldn't deal with cheating from my spouse. We've been through it once, and it was the single most painful experience I've ever had. I would leave if it happened again. I couldn't give my blessing. If my husband wants to be with me, he knows he has to be with only me. I don't really believe that if partners gave each other carte blanche to stray that they wouldn't turn around and do just that.

[Oh I didn't say they wouldn't have sex with someone else. I'm just wondering how far they'd really go. Not very far, I think, because it's almost never as satisfying as one imagines... which goes back to the "grass is greener" phenomenon. It always *looks* greener but survey after survey shows people rarely enjoy their affairs as much as they imagined they would. Also, the important thing is your partner *cheated* on you! He changed the rules without asking or telling you. *That's* betrayal. Betrayal hurts, and I'm sorry he did that to you. (I hope he is too.) Thanks, BareLace. --fl]

Hmmmmm.......
The hubby would never give his permission for any outside play, so that's really a moot point, but if he did, I have a very short list of men who have what it would take for me to cross the fence to the other side of the pasture. Don't be insulted by this, figleaf ... you're second on my list!
But since this is a fantasy world, and I don't believe that real life can possibly measure up to the perfection of a fantasy, I'm not so sure that I would actually risk wrecking the fantasy to find out what he tastes like on the back of his neck, or smells like right at the spot where his legs join his body, nor how his hair feels fanning out across my belly ... Dreams are safer, and they hurt no one. I'll stick to them, and not worry about hurt feelings, on either side. By the way, I wouldn't be giving my permission, either; it's more a matter of my own personal honor that I don't cheat than anything to do with my husband.

[Wonderful answer, Rhia! First because you recognize that while you've got a list you probably wouldn't act, or wouldn't act often, even if you had permission. That's the half-inch of water I was talking about. I never developed the grass-is-greener part beyond the title, but your recognizing the difference between fantasy-yes and reality probably-not speaks nicely to that. I think one-sided (ok for me but not for thee) permission probably wouldn't solve much. If nothing else it would increase rather than quiet any sense of balance. Finally, if it's a point of honor for you it's a point of honor and it seems to me in that circumstance permission would be beside the point. --fl]

Just to say, the best part of above picture is the wedding ring. Eye catching and very attractive. Green grass or no, I suppose I'm a sucker for monogomy.

[Thank you, Claire. --fl]

How's this for an interesting tidbit:

In my first marriage there was a talk very early on, and we stated that with approval the other partner could 'wander'. Then, my husband, seeing I had taken a liking to a man I worked with - but would never sleep with normally (it was WORK and he was high in management. I'm not stupid.) - he suddenly changed the rules. I felt as betrayed as anything, and did end up cheating in anger and an almost "you can't just do that without us talking about it!" kind of way.

The rules changing is what hurts. No matter which way people go about changing them.

I have found that, with a semi-open door, people don't go far. Why should you when you have a loving, understanding, amazing person at home?

[Excellent point, Autumn, and an incredible illustration of both propositions: cheating -- changing the rules -- hurts regardless, and permission reduces the pressure to act. It's not clear from your description that your manager was the person you slept with, but it's pretty interesting that in that case you probably wouldn't have made your move if your partner hadn't said you couldn't. I'm not at all fond of the idea of sex with one person as an act of testing or defiance towards another person (one reason I think many affairs are ultimately unsatisfying) but I think it's a surprisingly big motivator. Thanks, Autumn. --fl]

Not exactly sure, holding the leash or letting it go, control or lack there of. Having too much or having nothing, love or open to love.

There are many ways to be hurt, there are many ways to hurt ... I prefer to avoid as much pain in my life as possible.

[I really don't think I have an answer, but I'm thinking it's about finding the balance between exclusivity and surity. The more exclusivity one demands the greater the possiblity of resentment. (It feels as though think exclusivity can only be granted, not demanded.) Thanks, Leela. --fl]

Very thought provoking... i actually did finally ask dh to consider a threesome, and he said he would. Which would be interesting. But not necessary. We enjoy talking about the hotness of other people, and having it turn us on. But i don't think it would ever turn into serious extramarital play or polyamory. I feel that both of us are truly monogamous at heart, and i am very happy and content with this. I do have a number of online acquaintances who appear to be truly poly at heart, though, and it is interesting to hear them discuss the interactions they have with their main partner and with others.

[Good for you for asking if that's what you really want. And good for you for recognizing that getting permission is often bigger than following through. :-) Thanks, Lydia. --fl]

Figleaf,

Thank you for another thought provoking posting.

As a single person, I wonder what my future married life (if I should be so fortunate) will look like from that angle. How open will it be? How honest? As the daughter of parents who have both wandered in their marriages, I sincerely hope not to follow in their footsteps. I think I am especially adventurous in my sex life now, while single and accountable to no one, hoping to evade the curiosity or "I wish I had..." factors later on. But is that really possible...or just a convenient excuse? Your guess is as good as mine. But I am going to keep playing now, just in case.

I think a lot about the definition of cheating. I have to say-- your quote, "changing the rules without telling the other people in the game.", is probably the most accurate I have ever heard.

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing. Your blog is always fascinating.

xo.
Miss B.

[I'm not taking credit for the definition so I'm pretty comfortable agreeing that it's a great one. As for whether you're doing the right thing by "storing up" memories for if and when you "settle down" I dunno. Might work, might not. Better, maybe more honest, to be clear about the possibility both for yourself and your partner-to-be. For what it's worth, right now I'm sort of brooding over the idea that I'd worry more if a partner found one special person to be his or her outlet than if they found ten. I'm not ready to say much more than that, and I admit I could be crazy, but sex with one second party seems more problematic than either pure monogamy or pure free-for-all would be. Thanks, B. --fl]

Good Morning Figleaf,

Well, my husband and I are in an 'expansive' relationship to which we agree that we can feel free to be sexually assertive in any way that pleases us as long as we are open, honest, and safe. We do not stray far from a close group of friends that we are comfortable with... this aids us to feel at ease with our decisions.
It is not often that somebody new is introduced to the fold.

Reason being, my husband and myself are bi-sexual so obviously there are things we need that we cannot give each other. We knew this going in to the relationship and have remained happy and strong for 8 years and a child (w/one from a previous marriage).

Before we decided to embark on a relationship which dictated no sexual commitment, we were struggling to understand where the gap of closeness and love was... since we have began 'sharing' it seems we are much more bonded and close.

I know this is not possible for all couples, but should you decide to embark down the road WE travel, the key is honesty, openmindedness, courtesy, and restraint (when needed).

Anyway, that's my two cents worth :)

[Very elegantly put, Emma. Thank you! --fl]

Is it really "straying" if the people in the relationship have agreed that other sexual encouters not restricted to just the two of them are okay? The word "straying" carries a negative connotation, and in this case presents what I feel is a logical fallacy. It reminds me of the time I was talking to someone who could not accept that monogamy might not work for 100% of the people on this planet, and he said something like, "How can two people agree that infidelity is acceptable in a relationship?" Well, it's not infidelity if it's something they've agreed upon!

[I probably just worded the post poorly. You're right. If you're sticking to agreed upon rules it's by definition not cheating. Thanks, Amber. --fl]

I cheat in my head all the time. That's where it stays. And I'm enjoying straying whilst looking at your shower series, Fig!

[As a libertine prude what happens in your head, or even your pants isn't cheating. If it happens in your *heart* though -- if you don't treat your parnter with "honesty, openmindedness, courtesy, and restraint (when needed)" as EverythingNice puts it -- then it doesn't matter that everyone kept their pants zipped. Thus spake the prudish libertine. --fl]

as far as cheating goes, it's best to ignore pretty words and look at actions instead. i'm not saying cheating is good or that people should do it. but it's not that bad, i'm sorry. i think being controlled by a partner is way way way worse than getting cheated on. ok--i do have a bias in that i have cheated. and i know many women in my personal life who are far more conservative than me, have cheated, and would never forgive their husbands for the same thing.

i'm not saying that all women who say they can't forgive cheating cheat on their men. i'm just saying that talk is cheap, and we'll never really know what happens when any of us thinks no one is looking.

remember--many women in the anti-choice movement wind up seeking abortions from the same clinic they picket. many of the so-called sorority girls i know here in socal are far more conservative socially and politically than i am, even calling other "fast" women sluts and hos. and if you knew their body count and what they've done with frat boys, it would put some mainstream porn stars to shame.

part of the reason you see so much lip service to monogamy is because it's what's expected. let's face it--you admit that you want to make a habit of sleeping with different people, you are seen as a thoughtless and immoral freak incapable of deep feelings. you must be some type of shallow sociopath if you don't have what it takes to remain interested in one person for the rest of your life.

like you said in your post--we say we prefer monogamy, but our actions say otherwise. in my short experience, i have realized that words can become useless when it comes to relationships. just because i "strayed" doesn't mean i don't love my man. i was just a different person with the other guy, and i wanted the variety. my man didn't feel that way, so i lied to keep him. yes, that is very selfish. but the point is that i love him and i did what i did not to hurt him, but because i thought i could have it all without him finding out.

i'm still with him. my biggest regret is that he found out and he got hurt. but i don't regret the experience i got with the other guys.

we'll never know the true extent of female infidelity. also keep in mind that the ones most likely to talk big about faithfulness are women.

[Yup, if we didn't mean it, or maybe didn't think other people did, we wouldn't have a word for it any more than we have a word for, say, forgetting to exhale after we inhale. And don't get me wrong about monogamy, I think it's pretty cool and only occasionally frustrating. I just think that giving each other permission not to be makes it a little easier... and a little less painful than honoring it only in the breech. Thanks, Laura. --fl]

You are correct that most people prefer monogamy but the question is why do they prefer that lifestyle, or more imoportantly perhaps, why do they believe monogamy is their preference.

This might offend quite a great number of people but I believe one of the biggest reasons most people prefer monogamy is simply because they are far too insecure to handle polyamory. I do acknowledge that for some people this is their true happiness and if that's the case than so be it, more power to them. But for the most part I believe the phenomenon of monogamy is based largely on cultural conditioning and low self-esteem/insecurity.

I personally prefer a man who can "juggle" a few women at once and keep them all happy. It's a sign of great maturity, communication skills, and intelligence if a person can successfully manage multiple relationships, whether they are male or female.

Rey

"...why do they believe monogamy is their preference?" Interesting question, Rey. I think as long as their answer is something other than "I dunno, I've never thought about it but I know it's the only way..." then I can be comfortable with it. Ok, or unless the answer is "everyone else should do it so I say I do it too, even though I don't believe it, like it, or practice it myself." As long as you can be conscious, and consensual about it with your partners, I'm not sure any one system is inherently better than another. Thanks. --fl]