Looking for an insider's perspective on intercourse
Ordinarily I try to keep my posts mixed up a little more than I have lately. I'll probably always have the most to say about Society and politics but lately I've been kind of stinting on discussion of techniques, short-form word pictures, and erotic memories and fantasies, and, of course, Half-nekkid Thursday photos.
But lately I've been slacking off. As Kochanie of Literate Perversions, no slouch herself when writing about society and politics, very generously reminds me in this comment:
Over the past few weeks you have written some exceptional posts and generated thoughtful discussions about topics and recent events that are rather sobering. I think that you and your readers need a change of pace. Hope you will bring comfort to the weary Body Politic with some erotic poetry and photos for HNT.
So I've got a no-less serious question, one that goes way, way back... at least as far back as Shere Hite's The Hite Report: A Nationwide Study of Female Sexuality, or a bit further to Masters and Johnson on Sex and Human Loving, and maybe even back as far as Freud: if you're a woman how much do you actually enjoy intercourse?
Ok, ok! It's not a stupid question, and if it's uniformed it's uninformed by a lot of experts. Hite reported that quite a few women could take it or leave it, and that even more didn't come that way. Masters and Johnson demonstrated that it's a dreadfully inefficient way for women to have orgasms. And Freud (bless his dead, white, male Victorian heart) claimed that only very adult women could have "vaginal orgasms," with everyone else "immaturely" having to rely on their clitoral orgasms instead.
Now I'm not saying I agree with them. I'm just saying they said it. And that growing up I believed it.
Which is why, for instance, I've never been much for quickies. Why, instead, I'd prefer to make a night out of sex -- to start out with conversation and light caresses over dinner, warm kisses at the stoplights in the car on the way back, sitting on the couch with legs intertwined with tea and conversation and laughter before setting down the empty cups and reaching for each other. It's why I love the feeling of pulling someone close for a kiss, both of us tipping back, leaning one against the other, hands around each other's backs, tea-hot lips and tongues swirling, tasting each other, brushing away stray locks of hair, slipping fingers first tentatively and then frantically under clothes to cup and stroke what can be reached under still-buttoned fabric but over frustratingly still-fastened lace. And as buttons finally begin to loosen (*not* on their own) I enjoy rising to my feet, my hand outstretched for yours, lifting you back up to me, and leaving an untidy trail of socks, shirts and tops, shoes, watches, earrings, t-shirts, belts, skirts, bras, jeans, panties... and giggles and sighs... up the stairs and down the hall, the trail fading to nothing in the last few feet to the bed... and a sweep of the covers and the surprised protest of springs as first one than another warm, wriggly body lands with a bounce. It's why I love the mock-wrestling holds and turns as each finds the best position, the best leverage, the neck-protecting best side up before wrestling turns to kiss-blinded exploration, arms, and throats, and thighs flexing to accommodate each others hands. It's why I love to loom high over, craning down to kiss down neck and shoulders, pausing and circling endlessly over breasts, carefully navigating past ticklish ribs and bellybuttons to pause, and taste, pause and taste before slipping into place, knees on the floor and chest on the edge of the bed, to lick and taste and slurp in earnest, to circle and swirl, my lips protectively curled over my teeth as hips and thighs thrust and bump slippery softness against my open mouth. And as breath comes short and bucking turns to shivers the question asks itself again.
If you're a woman, how much do you enjoy intercourse? You know it's really, *really* ok to stop, there's no obligation to go on. Shere Hite was pretty sure it's usually not worth it. Masters and Johnson say it's a lot of work for little reward. Freud says... well who cares? But how about you? Would that be enough or would you like to play on?
I enjoy intercourse but I had to mature to not be embarrassed or ashamed that I do. (But I won't go there again ;)
I like all the extra stuff you mentioned in your post though. It makes me feel that I am wanted, me as a person instead of just a human vibrator. Without the extras intercourse is something I can take or leave. Probably because without the extras there isn't much to distinguish intercourse from masturbating.
[I think you put your finger on the problem, Cat. If the various researchers I mentioned were really talking about no preliminary hanky-panky / no follow-up thank-ee then they were probably right. And eww, zero-to-sixty sex isn't that much fun for men either. At least not this one. Thank you! --fl]
1st....thanks to kochanie for sounding the call
2nd, thanks figleaf for listening
3rd, yes. yes! YES! I love intercourse and all the prelude and all the postlude. each sensation at each stage is something to be savored.
that being said, i don't enjoy it properly if there's no decent prelude.
[Yeah, I think maybe men can get themselves off without preliminaries while women (generally) need more time than that but... really. Thanks, Lime. --fl]
First I'd like to thank you for your posts, I really enjoy reading them.
To me intercourse is like icing on the cake, I can do without it but I really, REALLY, enjoy it. Some of it more than other.
Let me explain.
1. I've never had a vaginal orgasm.
2. I absolutely HATE prolonged 'in, out, in, out, in, out' action, it does nothing for me. Yes, I'm sure some guys who're so proud of their stamina and ability to do just that are crushed at the moment.
3. After propper tease, foreplay and cunnilingus I crave penetration. Now I'd hate to be with a premature ejaculator who'd cum the minute he penetrates, but at the same time I just get bored and sore if he's spending 30 minutes doing the 'in and out'.
4. There is no feeling that compares to the feeling of a man cumming inside me and for that intercourse is required.
Sometimes a 'Wham, bam, thank you Ma'm' is just what the doctor ordered. No foreplay or nothing, just a quick fuck (penetration). But for me that usually happens when I'm with a long term partner where there's already chemistry and all that comes with it.
Like Cat says, the extra stuff makes a very big difference.
[Like icing on the cake? Nicely put. I've always felt the same way... ok, it took a little while to figure it out -- I actually had to *have* intercourse to realize it -- but it didn't take long. (Especially when there wasn't birth control!!! Yeeks! I never could manage that, and no, condoms didn't count as birth control so that was out too.) Thanks, Obsequenda. --fl]
I would, if I could enjoy play as you describe.
[Thanks, Five. --fl]
...how much do you enjoy intercourse?
How much? Enough to make the words on the page blur from the tears that well up when I realize how much I long for it. And as I long for it, I am amazed how two people can find so many ways to avoid it: illness, resentment, exhaustion and plain old timidity, to name only a few.
Yes, I enjoy the foreplay and all the gestures and movements that communicate our desire. But I agree with obsequenda who said: There is no feeling that compares to the feeling of a man cumming inside me and for that intercourse is required.. It is in that moment that I feel the greatest connection to my partner.
Thank you, Figleaf, for the lovely post. Lime, you are most welcome.
Now that it is 4:00 a.m., and the October wind is snuffling at the front door like an eager old dog, I will shut off my computer, put my resentment aside, and give my partner that long-delayed good night kiss.
[Wow, that's pretty moving, Kochanie. Thank you. --fl]
Intercourse without other stuff= not for me.
Other stuff without intercourse= not for me.
Both are vital to me. Love the quickies but need the longies from time to time to feel ravished, spent, out of this world.
And while being carressed all over my body is heaven, feeling my Man's cock inside me is even better. Not sex toys, not condom covered cock. It's naked, raw penis skin that shoots zingies into my cunt tissues....nothing better than that feeling. Nothing.
[Y'know the thing about quickies for me is they work best when you realize you've been dying for each other all day and you both figure out "hey, it's time." But that's sort of like you've each been taking care of "foreplay" on your own. Thanks, Gillette. --fl]
I love the question and I love the description of the scene. And like some of your readers at the moment the scene described ends and the question begins I am thinking "yes, I crave penetration."
But with what?
I want to feel filled, but with what? Fingers sometimes. A dildo sometimes. Sometimes with the cock of my lover, certainly. Often that. And I love the feeling of his orgasm. It is not so much an internal physical feeling -- If his body didn't tense up the way it does and if his breathing didn't suddenly change the way it does I don't think I'd know whether he'd come or not -- but it is a powerful emotional feeling. A particular kind of satisfaction.
That said, I love the feeling of being made to come by someone who is not, at the moment, working directly toward their own orgasm. I love to sometimes be made the center of attention -- to know that my body is the only thing my partner is focused on. For that person to, at the top of the stairs, at the end of the trail of clothing, after a tussle of making out on the bed, for that person to say, "Wait, stop, lie back, feel this. Let me show you something."
And then, intercourse is not the thing. Penetration, yes! Fullness? Yes, yes! Intercourse? No, not just then.
[Oh I totally know what you mean, Elizabeth. I think in a way I used to be too much into that focusing thing with my partners, where the whole point of everything, even intercourse, was to get her off and I'd just wait till she did to come too. Which is *very* polite if you can look past the sort of arrogant pride and/or sense of control I got out of it. The cost to me, though, was that it took a very long time to learn how to enjoy it myself *for* myself, which a very sweet and insightful partner finally pursuaded me to try. The joke-on-me part is that I still wind up coming when my partner does, but without doing all the count-backwards-in-my-head stuff I thought I had to do. And I still get to enjoy the feeling of extending "foreplay" into intercourse. But without the whole "male provider" thing going on I really enjoy *myself* too. Thanks, Elizabeth. --fl]
Here's some clinical data for you FL. ;-)
Yes, very much. I have had vaginal orgasms, rarely but I have had them and they were great, but that is not why I enjoy vaginal intercourse - there is something primal about being "filled up," I think it is the singular feminine experience, and I enjoy the sensations of penetration, of thrusting, of taking him inside me, of being enveloped by a man, held. The first moment when a man enters you and you hold one another, that is extraordinarily powerful and I treasure that.
Yes occasionally I can sort of dissassociate, it happens to everyone at some point, but I find if I concentrate on the physical sensations that I am receiving, I add to his pleasure and mine and I can be fully present during vaginal intercourse and I enjoy it more. And I can have intercourse, and if I don't have an orgasm, and just have him cum, I'll be perfectly content with that; love is about giving, and if I concentrate on giving not receiving, I find I receive more (now there's some Zen for you). I very much enjoy the sensations of a man's orgasm inside my vagina, it is fantastic. I would much rather have him inside me than cumming on me or near me.
And usually, after oral sex, almost immediately after I have a clitoral orgasm, I usually strongly desire penetration, and I can get very wanton and animalistic about it (get in here now!); which usually makes him happy.
[I remember Hite mentioning that bit about wanting penetration, although she added that it quickly went away. (Again, I'm not agreeing, I'm just saying how she interpreted her data.) But now that's *me* being clinical when I really ought to be saying wow, that was a very stirring description. Thank you, Michelle! --fl]
now that i am properly awake may i add....
penetration for penetration's sake is quite wonderful but i agree with the commenter about wanting more than just the same old in/out/in/out. get some good swivelling hip action going and lord have mercy it's just sooo delicious. a good slow grind is not to be underestimated...so many sensations occur like that, sensations that can't be had any other way.
also there is nothing like being fully penetrated while climaxing. it just adds so much to the orgasm when there's a nice hard cock to grasp with every contracting muscle.
[Long ago I remember reading somewhere that "men like friction, women like pressure," which she said meant men enjoy the in-and-out sensation while women respond to the feeling of stretching and side-to-side or up-and-down pressure. So yeah, what you're saying makes total sense, that moving round and round and grinding works better than porn-style pumpety-pumpety-pump. Thanks, Lime. (Also wiping sweat from my brow from your description. Thanks again!) --fl]
Lot of work for little reward? Not for me; like others have already commented, I love that "filled up" feeling.
You have posted before about "what counts as sex", and I think lots of things count as sex. Being in a long term relationship complicated by kids, opposite schedules and general stress, MC and I have found that we don't always get to "finish" the cake when we're together. Sometimes a week or so will go by before he orgasms, and he dosen't seem to mind. I was lucky enough to have a very talented lover early on in my adult life who showed me the road map to vaginal oragasm. Now, the older I get, the more able I am to orgasm from lots of things; slow grinding sex, quickies and even BDSM play. The main thing (for us) is that we have time to be alone together on the weekend and reconnect as lovers, which can be accomplished any number of ways. As long as we reconnect, we both start the week feeling good about each other and our relationship.
There's my long answer: the short answer is I need both the cake and the icing, but can be happy with one or the other if that is all that is available. ;)
[Thanks for your thoughtful answer, Kitty. Going back to some of the earliest comments here that mentioned quickies: the more connection/reconnection time you spend together the more likely you'll be in a place where quickies that aren't, well, knock-one-offs. :-) Thank you. --fl]
I love it!! Intercourse is one of my favorite sexual activities! And I need it on a VERY frequent basis. ;)
I would venture a guess that the women who say they can "take or leave" intercourse are unfortunate to have partners that aren't very good at it. And I imagine that if you have a partner who's bad at oral sex (and had never experienced otherwise, and didn't speak up) you'd probaby say you could "take or leave" oral sex. Seems to me that it's often more a reflection on the partner than the individual in question.
[I'm guessing that attentive partners make a big difference. :-) Thanks! --fl]
Additionally: intercourse is usually the only way I can come with a partner (either missionary or me on top). There have been a handful of times when I've come from oral sex, and slightly more than that when I've come from a well-placed hand... but it takes a lot of effort, especially oral sex. I don't know why... that's just how my body is. And I know I'm probably unlike a lot of women in that I'm not all falling-over-myself wild about oral sex. Sure, it's nice. I like it. It's fun. The GDBF is quite good at it. But ultimately? I want to get down to the fucking. I need pressure and hardness (and ultimately that's what makes me come). And I just can't get enough of that from a tongue.
[We make lots of dumb mistakes growing up. The one I kick myself hardest for was not believing a partner who really wasn't interested in oral, or just generally clitoral stimulation at all. She'd start gasping the second anything, even a fingertip, probed her vagina and... I just thought she just had... I dunno... too much indoctrination or something. A while later The G-Spot came out and I've felt like a putz for not understanding her ever since. Good lesson in the perils of being an overeducated chimpanzee. Thanks, Amber. --fl]
Similar to Amber really.
Unlike Masters and Johnson I think that intercourse is the most amazingly efficient way to climax. It means I can come at the same time as my partner, and much more quickly and more intensely than any other method.
[Good point, Astra. It's way easier to come together via intercourse than, well, most other ways. Oh yeah, plus you get to kiss. Mouth-to-mouth I mean. :-) (And I don't think I can say often enough how it's hard to get enough of kissing.) Thanks. --fl]
Sex is like food.
Sometimes you are so very hungry you need to just eat and eat and it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you are eating.
Sometimes a quick snack will do. Sometimes you need a leisurely 7 course meal will fulfill your hunger.
Sometimes you eat just for the pleasure of eating and were never hungry in the first place.
Day to day, hour to hour it's different and that's what makes it all so exciting.
Now, where did I put that chocolate bar?
[Yea, someone else who thinks sex is like food! You can enjoy all sorts of cuisine without having to change chefs. So why stick with pork and beans? Thanks, Madame. --fl]
From an orgasmic perspective, I could take it or leave it.
From a more holistic approach -- damn, it's a fine way to spend an evening. As long as tab A in slot B isn't the only thing going on, that is; it's a good finisher, but the more outercourse the better!
[Hey, I like the word "outercourse," Sara. I've been chaffing at "foreplay" since a commenter pointed out that it originally meant "doing something to get the woman ready that men don't need." While it's true that men don't need foreplay, at least not the way women do, the result of no foreplay is neither as intense, as enjoyable, or as gratifying -- it's sort of the sexual equivalent of eating cold food out of boxes: effective but not very satisfying. Thanks! --fl]