Following up on "Silence is not sexy"
Yesterday I posted about how the common conceit that romantic sex must be wordless complicates everyone's response to so-called gray-area date rape. Catching up on other people's blogs it looks like problems with communications-free sex is just in the air. I couldn't be happier.
Annie Dennison of Smart at Love says
We know that a man - even a good one who loves us - cannot read our minds.
But that doesn't stop us from being disappointed occasionally when we have to spell out for him what we want or need in a relationship.
It seems to come down to two ideas about love that many of us buy into:
"If he loves me - and really gets who I am - he'll just know what makes me happy."And...
"If I have to ask him for something that's important to me, it doesn't count."I like to think of myself as a woman who doesn't unrealistically expect a man to be a mind reader for my wants and needs. After doing a recent mental inventory of my relationships, though, you know what I discovered?
In some areas I'm very good at spelling it out with a man, and in other areas I secretly wish he'd just know what I want and need.
Take sex, for instance.
...
Not asking in the first place is not a good thing, whether you're a woman or a man.
And RenegadeEvolution of The Fine Art of Free Speech and Dissent comes to the same point
…a lot of otherwise assertive, on top of it, alpha gals- and those who aren’t- turn a little odd in the bedroom. Suddenly, it’s like they cease being able to communicate, let alone express their desires. They are afraid or ashamed to ask for what they want, tell their partners what works for them or gets them off. They feel selfish or shameful or greedy if they ask for certain acts, or positions, or aspects of foreplay that they enjoy…because there is that lingering shame, or fear, or responsibility. That false yet still creeping theory that women aren’t necessarily supposed to like sex, or want sex, or enjoy sex. They are supposed to be the guardians of morality and all. I remember how floored I was when I read about how many women have never had orgasms, and every time I hear a woman say she’s never had one. My first initial thought is “what the hell are you doing wrong?” And I think I’ve come to the conclusion that what they are doing wrong is not talking. Being embarrassed to experiment, ask for, tell, explore, request, look into what might or will get the job done. I know grown women who will argue with anyone all the day long about anything but are embarrassed to ask their partners for cunnilingus. I know successful, otherwise bad ass females who are ashamed to admit that they like and enjoy certain positions more than others to their partners…let alone request them. I know women who pretty much never enjoy sex, but rather endure it, because they are embarrassed to ask for what they want, and would rather “suffer in silence” as it were than be seen as wanton, lustful…um…sexual and into it.
It makes me want to cry, really. Not all sex is great, even good…but suffering constantly through bad sex because you’re embarrassed to speak up and say what might make it better???
I shouldn't have to say it, but just to be clear neither I, nor Dennison, nor RE are advocating relentless meta-level conversation *during actual sex.* Nor are we claiming that lovers never come together wordlessly. However, odds are that lovers, especially first-time-together lovers, have a much, much greater chance of actually *coming together* if they take the time to confirm to each other than sex is actually desired, that if they find themselves popped out of their erotic haze and back into everyday consciousness that they'll recruit their partner in order to get back into it, and that afterwards either during subsiding heartbeats and affectionate nuzzling or later over breakfast or lunch they discuss what went well and what they'd enjoy next time.
We're not saying you must *always* communicate. (Indeed Dennison adds "Asking for the tenth time - nagging - is not a good thing, either. We'll tackle that topic another time.") We're just saying that failing ever to communicate (and I would add *especially* the first time with a new partner) is a pretty terrible way to make sure everyone has a good time.
What's *your* story?
How too true this topic is. I'm a victim of this ass-backwards way of thinking myself.
Outside the bedroom (or wherever), I have no problem discussing things I'd like to try, what positions I adore, what ones are merely okay, etc.
But during the sex act itself, I have a huge tendency to clam up. No matter how many times my partner says he likes me telling him what to do... no matter how well he responds to direction or suggestions.. it's still damn tough to do! It frustrates me to no end. With time and practice, it is getting better, but there's that bump there still of 'I need to just go with things and be quiet'.
[I've got a perfect illustration of the principle I'm trying to articulate then, Q: tell your partner that talking knocks you out of your erotic headspace and that you'd rather do it quietly. That's not to say you shouldn't check in with each other, especially early on, but that's very different from keeping a running narrative unless *both of you* enjoy it. See what I mean? Thanks! --fl]
I like to communicate after sex, what was good, what worked the best. But I know husband would rather just lay there and relax without the chattering. (he's never said that to me but I asked him once and he said, very gently, that sometimes he likes the quiet.) So I try to balance the two needs, his to just enjoy the moment and mine to talk about it. And, when I ask him if he liked a certain thing, he invariably says, "It's all good baby." It's the same response he has to my cooking, I want to hear if he really, really liked it and he doesn't want to make any one meal or any one sexual move stand out above the others. I don't know really why, somehow he thinks that would be bad, to admit that some meals/sexual things are better than others?
Blabster out.
[I know what you're saying, DFP. I think as long as you're checking in on each other, and communicating when something feels out of whack, then there's not really a problem with sticking to "it's all good baby" if that's all he's up for right after sex. Like I said... um... somewhere in the last day or so, you can always broach the subject again after breakfast. :-) Thanks! --fl]
I don't like sexual post mortems, evaluating things afterward, and engaging in an ongoing dialogue during sex reads like over the top erotica; I can't form detailed sentences while I'm busy exploring another human being, and vica versa. It's something that's individual, I think.
I'd rather disucss things away from the bedroom (if anything is wrong). Taking instructions into the bedroom, or nagging, is like shooting the sex in the foot to me.
[Going back to my beloved food/sex analogy, the way to approach communications is sort of like preparing dinner -- the first time you have someone over you ask a) would you like to have dinner with me, b) do you have any diet restrictions, c) maybe say you really enjoy preparing certain dishes, and then d) are you ready to eat. Sure, it's ok to talk during dinner about how you prepared this or that or whether your companion would like more salad, but it's also perfectly fine to talk about something else... or nothing at all. It's also ok for a guest to say "woah, this soup is too salty" instead of eating it anyway through gritted teeth. It would also be fine to say, later, next time I'd enjoy trying instead. Such meal-oriented conversation isn't really careful negotiation, nor is it a running narrative of the meal, and neither is it a formal debriefing. Instead it's just courteously checking in. So I'm just saying that if we approached sex the same way (not in terms of casualness but of courtesy) there'd be far fewer misunderstandings. Thanks, Anastasia. --fl]
I usually get a txt saying "need a fuck on arrival" or she tugs repetitively on my cock (I have similiar techniques) - both seem to work pretty well for starters then after that she's a painter so any propositions are manipulated in half signals like I'm a posing figure until I get what we are doing and because I work in film, I tend to forwardly direct experiments - any objection to the experience is voiced and usually alternatives are hurredly sought.
Rups
[It sounds like at least for you hand signals and eye contact communicate plenty. Which is the whole point. It's not *how* we communicate but *that* we communicate. Which, oddly, not everyone appears to do. Thanks, Rupert. --fl]
I find this hard for though I'm fine with saying what I like and he's up with listening (he has fairly basic tastes but is happy to show me what he'd like :D), I don't always know what I'd like
I am very sexual but I am VERY turned on by flirting. With this largely cut out in a long-term relationship I find it hard to be aroused.
Also, I tend to be turned on at random times, and a huge sticking point a while ago was him getting frustrated because I was always interrupting what he was doing wanting to have sex. That's because THAT'S WHEN I'M AROUSED. He saw it as sort of sabotage
I am not turned on when I go to bed. We're already naked, the build-up is nil. Yet he only really seems to be into it when we're in bed.
So I don't really know what to ask for *sigh*
[Interesting reversal, Dana. My similar sort of middle-of-the-day thing was a frequent problem for some (though not all) of my longer-term partners. In retrospect I think what might have helped me, and might help you and your partner, would have been if I'd given them more time to warm up to the idea and find a stopping place. Call it more localized flirting? Thanks, Dana. --fl]
Figleaf ~
Very interesting blog you have here! And thanks for linking to my post. I plan to return the favor.
Like you, I'm a big supporter of communicating one's wants and needs - before, during, or after sex. Whatever timing works.
It's striking how so many people of both genders assume that their partners should know how to please them.
Or they simply feel awkward being direct.
In case people don't click through to my entire post, and since you excerpted at that point where I was going to 'fess up to the area where I don't spell it out so well with a man...
...the bottom line is that I'm very direct about by sexual wishlish with a man.
But when it comes to ROMANCE, well, I do fall into the trap of secretly wishing that the man in my life would know what I want.
So I still need to practice what I preach and be direct in that area, too!
~Annie
[So here are my thoughts about that. First, it's totally fine to *wish* a partner just knew. And it's not out of line to expect a long-time partner to just know. The breakdown comes in when we demand out partners know at the beginning of our relationships. Admittedly that's a difficult time to discuss nuts and bolts, but then it's also the time when we're often most open to wanting to know everything about each other. So giving up a *little* romance for a little more intimacy might not be *that* bad a tradeoff. Thank you, Annie. --fl]
Before I go to bed with someone for the first time, I usually say something like this (in whatever words are appropriate):
When you have sex with someone for the first time, it's usually a technical disaster - you often can't make each other come, positions are awkward, etc. But this can go one of two ways.
In the first way, you are trying to have "movie sex." It progesses from kissing to fondling to removing each other's clothes to maybe some light foreplay to fucking, and it's supposed to be real smooth.
In the second way, you just get naked and hop into bed and then you have a playful, relaxed time talking and exploring things and being turned on and not knowing exactly where things are going.
In either case, the physical outcome will be similar - orgasms for some, perhaps not for others, with physical awkwardness - but the second kind is so much nicer.
If the person says "of course!" or "wow, that sounds awesome!" then I'm good to go. Otherwise...well, it doesn't bode well.
[Yeah, "movie sex" is an excellent phrase, Tam. Speaking of which, I remember reading... um... I'm pretty sure it was in Men's Health magazine... an interview with a couple of doctors about what would happen if people really tried to have sex the way it's done in the movies. One of them talked a lot about ruptured penises from the standing position (implied) intercourse often shown in film. Yeeks! Thanks, Tam. --fl]