Pick-up Artist "Negs" that might actually work
Ok, so Melissa Lafsky of Freakonomics has a column up about the "master" pickup artist technique of "negging" or insulting a woman you're trying to manipulate into having sex with you.
Under particular discussion is a pickup technique that Mystery advocates known as “negging” — a move that involves interjecting an insult during an initial conversation with a woman. The motivation behind the insult is, as Esquire’s A.J. Jacobs puts it, to “lower her self-esteem, thus making her more vulnerable to your advances.” While this tactic has provoked considerable ire, by all accounts from Strauss and his skirt-chasing Svengali, it seems to work.
By the way, I think I see the point and in my experience I even think it's worked for me. The idea, according to pickup artists anyway, is that by insulting someone you're letting her know you're so knuckle-draggingly confident she'll want to have your babies... or something like that. Sheahright.
Actually I *think* how it works is if you're not just trying to get on her good side with tapioca-warm flattery then maybe you're *not* trying to get into her pants... and so she'll lower her guard long enough to give you the time of day... whereupon, since all but the most sincerely, egregiously, monotonous human beings have *some* redeeming features, she might actually find you interesting.
Now. While I don't get the impression most pickup-artist consultants pitch it this way to their clients, *if* you're going to go throwing negative comments at someone in hopes of getting into their pants you *might* try making them *constructive* insults.
How about something like "Ew, you must have read that New York Times article or something. I can smell the cooked dead cow on your breath from all the way over here!" Or maybe, "Hey, I see you're a pretty good dancer but do you really think you have to kiss other girls with your top up to get guys to notice you?"
Sheesh!
Word to the wise, guys:
1) "Negging" is only going to work until it gets out that men who insult you are just trying to get into your pants. (Make that "men who appear to be trying to *deliberately* insult you" are.) Then it'll just be another line women have to be wary of, and all the men who've been banking on it will be even less likely to make genuine contact with someone with pretty much the same libido but a lot more trust issues than they do.
2) I'm guessing that what might really work with "negging" is that saying something negative about another person still usually registers as an attempt to be interesting and/or interested in them. The choices for appearing interesting and interested in them aren't limited to a) fawning remarks and peeks down their blouse and b) snarking.
Didn't I just say "sheesh?"
Is this like when we were in 4th grade and the boy trips the girl or punches the arm of the girl he really likes? Oh, ok.
[Eww, good point. That's entirely possible considering who the techniques are designed for. (By definition people who consult with "pickup artists" to get girls aren't necessarily terribly mature.) As for how it works I still think making someone feel more insecure, while it might actually work, still isn't the *optimal* way to get to know someone better. On the other hand if you're already ultimately insecure (as PWA clients sort of have to be) then maybe it's what keeps you from falling apart completely? But that's getting back to the guys again. I dunno. Thanks, Cathy. --fl]
Oh please. This guy last night was working pretty hard to pick me up, and if I had been so inclined to respond to him, I would have had to say that his style was spot-on. No negging, but no over-flattering, just a couple of genuine compliments. Buy a girl a drink, sing a duet with her at karaoke, make her laugh (this last is totally key). Those things are what make an effective pick up. Negging... jeesh... so juvenile.
[The downside, of course, is that Pickup Artists would instantly point out he didn't actually "score" with you. (Whee, fun being points instead of partners in a game innit?) All the more reason, they'd say, to try to drive chinks in your armor next time. What's weird is that I don't think we don't really have the language (or, really, the underlying social concepts) for the two of you to have been able to conciously discuss your situations and expectations relative to each other. Between double standards, conventions of courtesy, and traditional expectations it's hard to imagine how we could have one. Thanks, Lydia. --fl]
One thing that bugs me about these discussions is that the PUA crowd doesn't always distinguish between teasing and insulting. Teasing and witty banter are fun interactions, and there's no problem with that.
If the point is to cut the other person down, though, that's very different. I don't think you can really say that it's ineffective. Creepy and unethical behavior probably works better than nice behavior, if your goal is to get women into bed regardless of their consent or enjoyment. But that's just not an OK goal to have, for more reasons than I can list.
If more men could separate the urge to have sex from the urge to prove their superiority over women, I'd respond a lot better when a man just wanted to get into my pants. The unattractive thing is usually the disrespectful, sexist attitude, not the fact that the guy is primarily interested in sex.
Another thought: why are the pick-up targets always young women at bars? If your comments are any indication, there are plenty of horny older women who have trouble finding partners. Instead of competing over a relatively small demographic of women, why don't some of these guys expand their range a bit? It would require a lot less bullshit.
[Of course a lot of people *can't* tell where they are on the insult->teasing->banter spectrum. Which, I guess, is where the PUA consultants come in. Hmm.... Thanks, P. --fl]
"Instead of competing over a relatively small demographic of women, why don't some of these guys expand their range a bit? It would require a lot less bullshit."
Umm, you think we would like that type? Or are so desperate we require less in the way of bullshit?
I suspect the problem with men who use these "techniques" is that they are looking for a "trophy" and older women aren't generally seen as trophies.
A,
No, I think requiring less in the way of bullshit is a good thing. I wasn't trying to foist a bunch of predatory losers off on older women. The idea was more like, "if you want a girlfriend that badly, wouldn't it be easier to stop preening for women who are flooded with attention already, and start making yourself attractive to women who are actually looking for someone?" I guess the key phrase there is "making yourself attractive", which would probably involve getting over a lot of stupid masculinity issues. (None of this came through very clearly in the first comment, did it?)
I take your point about trophies, though.
You know, just this afternoon I was doing something as mundane as the shopping. I got into a tangle with my trolley/whatever you call it and was helped out by a passing man. We exchanged friendly smiles, and I thought to myself that's all it takes. Why ever don't they forget about techniques and start with a genuinely friendly smile? As you say, P Burke, making themselves attractive.