And the opposite of misogyny is...

OkCupid user Mehinda, in her User Journal asked

What is the equivalent of misogyny against men?

I’ve heard this question/challenge before, usually as some sort of counterbalance for accusations of misogyny in statements/current events, etc. Usually it’s a man who (a) claims that the women decrying misogyny are guilty, themselves, of misandry (or at least misandrist thinking) or (b) suggests that there are two sides to every problem, that violence exists—outside of, or above, things like misogyny. That hatred is hatred, regardless against whom it’s directed.

She poses the question, and answers it, here.

Hmm. Y’know, in a way it’s kind of a red-herring question to say “isn’t there something women do back to men that makes what men do to women seem less ruthless and wrong?” Because the answer is a) sure, there are some things women do back to men and b) typically it’s a reaction to what men have been doing to them and therefore, while objectionable, it is typically provoked.

Trying to compare how mean one gender is to the other under the current system, especially if the comparison is intended to “balance things out” such that nobody has to change, just isn’t productive.

So lately the question I’ve been working on is “just how much do misogynists hate men too?” And when you start looking it’s kind of scary. For instance dumping on women for wearing “revealing” clothes and, especially, claiming that if she comes to harm from men she had to have been “asking for it” implies that men are dangerous, criminal, controlled by their hormones instead of reason, incapable of self-control, and so on. Which, ironically, are the charges feverish anti-feminists accuse “Teh Feminists” of making against men. And which accusations, presumably, people have in mind when they ask “but isn’t there some equivalent to misogyny?” The answer, it turns out, is “yeah, the word for that is also misogyny!

What’s really bizarre is that if you add up all the male qualities tradition demands women to counter and “tame” you’re left wondering why exactly those traditionalists imagine men are the superior gender.

In fact, of course, men are perfectly capable of civility and self-control, as well as love, passion, subtlety, compassion, and real, mature, non-Beavis-and-Butthead lust. The system that brings us misogyny dismisses, denies, and denigrates those male qualities even as it disses women.

So yeah, there is an equivalent to misogyny and it’s called misogyny and it’s overwhelmingly common. Should we ever clear that up we could address the much worried about but tiny fraction of authentic, non-provoked misandry in an afternoon.

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I agree, I think it does happen more for men, and I think women quiz them just as much as men do.

My husband works in the housing dept of a state university-he (we’re separated) lives in the dorm because he’s the hall director, responsible for overseeing the running of the building and making sure that everything is going smoothly.

You know what? He’s really, really good at it. The students really like him, his staff adore him. He’s older than than the average hall director, so when people find out what he does for a living and where he lives-they usually get a strange look on their faces. Like maybe he hasn’t grown up yet, or there’s something missing somewhere.

The guy has two master’s degrees, and there were many times when we were out that former residents and staff members would come talk to him because they had fond memories of him, so the judging that goes on between men, I don’t get it. Because the respect that he gets from those kids is a lot more important.

[Oh, that’s another really good point, norby. We hear a lot about the very-real glass ceiling but less about the “glass floor” where men are really steered away from highly fullfilling but low “status” or compensation jobs like teaching or otherwise supervising young people (in non-athletic pursuits, anyway.) That whole kind of 3rd-degree is part of that “yeah, well you better produce, buddy, or you’re not marrying my daughter” mentality that pushes men towards “worthiness” as hard as women are pushed for “beauty.” It’s not that either worthiness or beauty is bad, in fact it’s kind of nice. It’s just when it’s fetishized into something more that we run into problems. Thanks! —fl]

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...just how much do misogynists hate men too?

A lot.

When I listen to some men talk about one another, I hear a litany of insults, such as:

He couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag with a machete. or
He’s so incompetent, he’d fuck up the Lord’s Prayer.

This baleful litany recounts career failures, a deplorable wardrobe, lack of punctuality, and mechanical incompetence. In comparison, these men are kind to their wives because their wives are kinder to them than the guys.

When I attended a holiday dinner party hosted by the company I worked for at that time, one of the senior executives seated at my table gave my date the third degree: where did he go to school, where did he work, what professional designations did he have(?!). This wasn’t just small talk: it was as though he wanted to take my date down a notch. Finally, I said to the exec, “X is not here for an interview. He came to enjoy the evening with me.”

I am not saying that women do not resort to such tactics, but, based on my observations, not with the same frequency as men. I am interested in hearing your take on this, fl, as well as that of your readers.

[Part of the problem with an only partially reflected upon life is that one can develop all sorts of radar for one form of discrimination while still cheerfully walking around with half a roll of biased toilet tissue stuck to one’s heel. So at least based on my observations men are subject to that sort of picky you-call-that-makin’-a-livin’ 3rd-degree from both other men and women. Because while most folks, even biased ones, have sense enough to keep clam about women they don’t necessarily notice that foghorning about anybody brings them down as well. Thanks, Kochanie. —fl]

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