Sexual vs. Sexualization Revisited
Photo from 100% Injury Rate's blog.
Yet another point rising out of comments (have I ever mentioned just how inspiring you all are, by the way?) Reacting to my reaction to Anastasia's reaction to the notion of teaching pole dancing to children, Holly (of The Pervocracy, who said)
There are a million forms of exercise that build coordination and self-esteem and the reason pole-dancing was chosen over karate or basketball or gymnastics can't be random.
And the sad part is that it probably doesn't stem from any kind of truly sinister intention, but probably from an honest belief that looking sexy leads to self-esteem. Which it can! But not for children, and not when you don't admit what you're doing.
Denying that spreading your legs around a pole is sexual does two different harms: it puts children into inappropriately sexual situations, and it denies the ability for these same situations to be very sexy among adults.
Yup. It's sort of like teaching children self-defense by taping "kick me" to their backs without letting them know. Teaching children a) to do things that look sexual to *other people* while b) claiming to the actual child there's nothing sexual about it is *exactly* what sexualization is all about.
*On the other hand,* and just to be clear, I wouldn't worry at all about adults promoting pole dancing to each other as a tremendous combination of skill, strength, coordination, and intentional eroticism.
[Quick note: The post by 100% Injury Rate, the source of the version of photo I used, above, mentions that the Australian program teaches girls *and* boys, which is at least one step in a positive direction, although it sounds like it's for kids as early as age seven. --fl]
I don't understand why something has to be done by boys/men for it to be seen as valid.
And Figleaf, as I'm sure you will appreciate, if I see one more person dismissively refer to pole dancing as "spreading your legs around a pole" and otherwise talking out of their ass about it, my head is going to fucking explode. Seriously people. If you have never tried it? SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. You don't know what you're talking about.
I have NO patience for this. NONE.
[Maybe it's that men and boys are *expressly excluded* that validity issues arise. So what's the deal, Amber? As we've discussed it's basically *impossible* for me to safely try it, let alone learn it, in a supervised setting -- there's only this place says it's the only one in the country where men can take classes -- and so you're saying if I'm not willing to commute 2,800 miles to classes I'm not allowed to even bring it up? WTF? And not to put too fine a point on it, but what's your take on all the pole dancing classes, and stripper-cise classes in general, that go out of their way to stress that *their* classes are "safe" because no one involved is or has ever been of those nasty sex-worker-type pole dancers or strippers? Because, you know, you do sort of see that pounded over and over again -- which I suppose *wouldn't* be a problem for anyone who wasn't into sex-worker rights to begin with but would be sort of surprising coming from anyone who did. So! While you might be willing to stand by while instructors assure parents that their daughters will be taught that pole dancing should never be associated with sex-work and anyone who does is a filthy pro-sex-worker pervert, then... I *still* don't want my daughter going because they'd *still* be assholes. --fl]
Amber:
Stating that pole dancing, with its highly sexualized connotations, is inappropriate for children is not the same as dismissing pole dancing as an atheltic exercise for adults. In fact, Holly was very clear about what she considered to be the positive effects of pole dancing:
If your emotional reaction to any perceived criticsm of pole dancing is so strong that it causes you respond to here with SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT, I recommend that you take the time to think about this.