Tyler Cowen of Marginal Revolution, of whom one can usually expect better, says
Sebastian Flyte, an unusual commentator, wrote:
“A man’s mate value is tied to status – if he emigrates he throws away whatever mate value he built up in his life. A girl’s is tied to youth and beauty. These are carried with her luggage.”
He has a point. Female migrants should on average be prettier, ceteris paribus, than those who stay in the old country.
Sebastian Flyte, for the record, is some sort of Pick-up Artist. That doesn’t make him wrong. The content of his assertion does. But what do you expect — he also thinks “Girls are pretty boring creatures.” Because, he says, “The amount of time I’ve spent on the internet in my life has given me a depth of knowledge far greater than the average girl I meet. I simply know WAY more about how the world works. Girls spent their teenage years socialising. I was on the internet and reading books. This knowledge-divergence can be both a blessing and a curse.” Because, I say, he thinks women are creatures (mmm, heterosexuality as bestiality!) Because for all his living on the internet he hasn’t yet figured out that single, unattached women, being human beings and therefore having libidos, are rather keen on sex and therefore don’t have to be tricked or confused into it. But I digress…
I’m more surprised by Cowen’s assertion that everything else being equal female migrants should be prettier than those who don’t migrate. (Later in his post he at least leaves open the equally silly but less gender-binding possibility that men who migrate could also be more attractive.)
I think it’s beyond silly. If looks and youth were such strong determinants you’d expect (using the economics version of Mazlow’s hammer) that younger, more attractive women would be more appealing, and thus of higher “value” to establishment men in the location of origin and so ceteris paribus they should also have less reason to migrate than their older or less attractive peers.
Actually, obviously, I’m pretty sure ambition on the one hand and how stagnant or stifling the place of origin is compared to the destination on the other have way more to do with decisions to migrate than either looks, transferrable skills, or other “mate value.”
Another factor would tend to be local connections for the would-be migrant — either opportunities (parents or parents friends fast tracking employment or business prospects, for instance) or obligations (“we need you to run…” or “but who will take care of…?) And so to the extent that women are the traditional parental caregivers, and since younger women tend to have younger parents, one would expect that, again ceteris paribus, younger women (whether attractive or not) would have fewer obligations and therefore fewer binding connections than somewhat older women, even unmarried ones.
And yeah, yeah, you can ride ceteris paribus to the rescue (but “all other things being equal” could mean compared to women who’s parents are all the same age and who’s parents are able to invoke the same obligations on them) but if you ride it too far you’re left with inconclusively small sample sizes.
And for the record Cowen plays (also uncharacteristically) a xenophobia card when he says “From a public choice point of view, the women in the country receiving the immigrants should be more suspicious of liberal immigration policies than should be the men in the receiving country.” All them immigrant dames being statistically prettier and younger and (oh heck, why not play that card too?) exotic and pliant and therefore more desirable to destination-local men than the flinty local women they’d otherwise have to choose from.
(And I bring up this criticism despite Matt Yglesias’s sensible and useful Emerson Hall maxim about jumping on experts for seeming elementary mistakes, articulated here. For one thing Cowen is an expert economist, not an expert on migration. For another, he’s citing someone who, in addition to being a pickup artist, is even less of an expert on migration.




Submitted by 3072 (not verified) on Sat, 2009-07-18 16:13.
Eh, fl, the problem is not that they're not into sex, the problem is that it's at the end of a long list of other considerations, like enjoying the sunshine, sprawling out at the beach, catching the latest concert, such that that nice-but-not-totally-inspiring guy with whom she has GREAT rapport ("He's funny, and nice, and he makes me laugh, but I just don't FEEL 'that way' about him.") is a footnote on one of the crumpled, unread pages of life. Add to that the social-climbing implications of assortative mating, and you wind up with 80% of the women taken up by 20% of the men.
Whereas men who have extracurriculars in mind are generally those who already have women in their lives.
Of course, I also felt that "A Clockwork Orange" was an important manifesto for a men's liberation movement, although perhaps a little too easy on women and H.M.'s Govt., so maybe my perspective is a bit off.
["'A Clockwork Orange' was an important manifesto for a men's liberation..." Hmm (he said taking you completely at face value) do you mean the book or movie version? Because the book version, which I read at least five times beginning in middle school, actually *is* a manifesto for *half* of men's liberation. In the sense that the answer to total, indoctrinated male irresponsibility is *not* total neural behavior modification nigh unto PTSD. But only half because neither indoctrinated irresponsibility nor aversion therapy address men at the level of reasonable fucking human beings. Also if you think sex for women is at the end of a long list of considerations you're, on average, mistaken. *Lousy* sex in the company of someone for whom the real point is the self-validating "yes" rather than the sex itself, maybe (although see how often PUAs score anyway.) Otherwise it's not any further down on the list than it is for men. --fl]
Submitted by 3072 (not verified) on Sat, 2009-07-18 17:26.
Girls spent their teenage years socialising. I was on the internet and reading books. This knowledge-divergence can be both a blessing and a curse.
Ahaha! My browsing craqued.com and reading trashy science fiction is SO SUPERIOR to your socializing and reading trashy romance novels!
Can we just cast a hex on economists that prevents them from talking or writing about gender at all? Because right now, I don't think their net contribution to the topic is anywhere near positive. John Quiggin can have an exemption if he wishes.
Submitted by 3072 (not verified) on Sat, 2009-07-18 17:42.
I'm mildly startled that he spent all that time on the internet without noticing that there are women on the internet too. And, presuming he got his books from libraries or bookstores, that he did so without noticing that there are women there too. Not *that* startled, though, because he's a pick-up artist and pick-up artists are utterly blind when it comes to women.
Pick-up artists scare me like little else because they have so much anger and so many delusions about women that they just seem -> <- this close to actually raping someone.
Submitted by 3072 (not verified) on Sat, 2009-07-18 19:57.
In the earliest days of the internet, only around 10% of its users were female. Today, it's more like 40% of the *frequent* users are female, and slightly over half of the total users. And yet there are still a lot of people who consider someone who is of unknown or unprovable gender to be male by default. (The "there are no girls on the internet" meme...) Of course, those tend to be guys who have been around for awhile and haven't gotten the memo yet, and people who mostly hang around the non-social and/or female-unfriendly portions of the 'net. I'm betting the number of women on the PUA-oriented sites is close to 0%.
Submitted by 3072 (not verified) on Sun, 2009-07-19 17:33.
The whole theory is so nonsensical that I think I would be stupider if had to refute it in any serious way.
But the short of it is: this hypothesis overlooks so much simple anthropology, sociology and history as to render it absurd to any person who has a basic comprehension of any of these fields or even US history.
I'm glad you're out there, calling people on their crap. Someone has to do it. :)
Submitted by 3072 (not verified) on Mon, 2009-07-20 11:40.
I can't get over his assertion that spending time on the internet made him a more well-rounded individual. Then again, it makes me unsurprised that he's into the PUA stuff, I guess.
I always find it so amusing how the guys who are supposed to be "womanizers" have so little regard for women. If you hate us so much, why do you even bother with us, you know?
Submitted by 3072 (not verified) on Mon, 2009-07-20 11:59.
Really? Because PUAs see themselves--and within their social circles and sociolect, really ARE--rational, empirical members of a reality-based community that describes the motives, preferences, and actions of a certain subculture of young, urban, conventionally-attractive women.
The main force driving Pick-Up is the fact that virtue isn't enough to make a man attractive, rapport isn't enough to make a man attractive, while SOCIAL DOMINANCE and being physically attractive ARE. The problem is that modern society's overspecialization and hierarchy make most men middling, men who do a bit of work in a cubicle, work that they've received from someone else and will shunt off to a similar man for similar twiddling. And that does not cause the men who produce it to become attractive, or even their jokes, pastimes, worldview, or recreational poetry, all equally unattractive.
Pick-up gets them out of the cubicle enough to actually MEET women, some of whom are bound to be attracted to either their tangibles or intangibles, and become more socially dominant for those who like that sort of thing.