Well… it’s from Psychology Today, which doesn’t have the winningest track record in my opinion, but here’s an interesting tidbit to ponder about the allegedly life-extending practice of Calorie Restriction. (A.k.a. CR, with some practitioners referring to themselves as CRonies.)
The article is from 2004, by Willow Lawson, and it’s an interview with a CR practitioner named Dean Pomerleau. One side consequence of CR, at least for most men, is reduced libido.
[Lawson] Many CR practitioners lose their sex drive. How is that healthy?
[Pomerleau] Obviously, it’s not for everyone. When you’re on the high testosterone side of the fence and your libido is going strong, it’s virtually impossible to see the appeal of the side of the fence that I’m on now. Some veteran CRonies, but not all, have observed this virtual disappearance of sexual desire. Like most men, I used to think about sex many, many times a day. It’s inconceivable to think about not having that as a large focus. Now, however, it’s very hard to see the appeal of going back to that testosterone-driven way of life. I don’t miss my libido one bit.
One of the biggest difficulties for my wife is that I’m not as attractive and she isn’t as attracted to me as she used to be. But psychologically and emotionally, she’s much more attracted to me now. I’m a much more considerate husband and father than I was prior to starting the diet.
I’ve mentioned in the (distant) past that if it’s the case that women really have lower libidos than men then a libido-balancing solution that’s pretty much never discussed would be finding ways to reduce male libido. Not that that’s ever considered, in part, because…
- Society’s way to obsessed with finding ways to increase women’s “lower” libidos
- Even though if we did increase women’s “lower” libidos we’d just turn around and start worrying that they were all turning into sluts or something
- And besides, our construction of male gender is just too dependent on men having “too high” libidos for that to be a possibility
- And if we did decrease men’s “higher” libidos we’d just turn around and start worrying that they were all turning into wimps or weenies or fags or something
- And finally, of course, if we did such a thing we might have to confront the minor point that men’s and women’s libido differences aren’t so cut and dried. (coughTwo Rules of Desirecough)
But really, notice Pomerleau’s take on the side effect: “Now, however, it’s very hard to see the appeal of going back to that testosterone-driven way of life. I don’t miss my libido one bit.” There’s not a lot of personal tragedy there. Unlike having a damaged sex drive (where you want to have sex but can’t) when you don’t have a sex drive you mostly tend to wonder what the fuss is, was, or (have you ever watched a kid during kissing scenes in movies?) will be all about.
But wait! Since at this point many of your mouse-pointers are stabbing for the leave-a-comment box let me point out that while may not be a personal issue can be an interpersonal nightmare. It takes two to tango, and if you’re not into it (however blissfully) your partner may decidedly not be — regardless of your particular combination of sexes.
(Via Daze Reader.)
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Last minute obligatory inappropriate/insensitive humor: Calorie restriction doesn’t actually extend your life, it just makes it seem longer. Warka-warka-wark.
Submitted by 3237 (not verified) on Mon, 2009-10-12 14:56.
For starters, I have to wonder how self-selected the pool of CR men may be. People who are attracted to asceticism in one form may also be drawn to other forms of self-denial. I'm not saying that food and sex are interchageable, or that denying them to oneself means the same thing, I'm only suggesting that this might be a pretty atypical group of people.
Further evidence for this comes from prostate cancer patients on androgen suppression therapy (ADT). They don't yearn for sex anymore - but most of them don't face their diminished libido with the equanimity of Pomerleau, the guy in the article. They experience it as a severe loss. They yearn to *be able* to yearn. They know there was a wonderful reason for the "fuss" but they just can't reconnect to the old desires. Most of them feel a great loss, and they mourn it. They *do* experience it as a personal tragedy. They often feel as though their lives have gone gray. Their wives are often frustrated both sexually and emotionally, because many of these men don't even feel like kissing or cuddling. Mind you, these guys aren't necessarily anywhere close to death; the ADT keeps the cancer in check. They are just suffering the effects of low T, including a dead libido.
Also, based on what Pomerleau hints, I'd like to hear directly from his wife about what she *really* thinks! It just ain't so that you have to kill a man's libido in order to experience kindness, closeness, and intimacy.
I once considered going on antidepressants just to damp down my own libido, in hopes of closing a yawning gulf between my desire and my mate's. But whenever I thought about calling my doctor and requesting a prescription, I'd start to cry. It felt to me as though I'd be intentionally amputating an important part of me. And I realize lusty women like mare are not supposed to exist under the Two Rules of Desire, but fuck that!
I get that you're partly running a thought experiment about the resistance to lowering men's libidos as a function of hegemonic masculinity. However, I'm skeptical that men would corner the market on such resistance. Sure, a high libido is part of some (many?) men's sense of self. The same is true for some of us women. Being attached to a high libido is by no means a male province, whatever our culture tells us. Unless a *person* (male or female) sees chastity as inherently virtuous and desirable, killing one's libido *is* a tragedy, not just interpersonally but personaly, too.
Or put it this way: Let me know, figleaf, when you're ready to use CR to lower *your* libido!
[Oh sheesh yeah, Sungold! The notion that men just naturally have higher sex drives is a conceit that I think is derived in large part by the more ominous no-sex class assumption that men must manage (and/or leverage) women's libidos. Also "based on what Pomerleau hints, I'd like to hear directly from his wife about what she *really* thinks!" Yeah, but I'd rather be outside the door than in it -- chances are good that you could hear her answer just as well and you'd be less likely to be hit with flying objects! One of the nightmares about anti-depressants, by the way, is they don't diminish libido, they just the ability to have orgasms. Worst of both worlds much?!?! And finally, no way I'm trying to reduce my libido! Good point about the natural draw of asceticism to people who are suspicious of any or all their appetites. That's not me. I do play with the assumptions but given a choice I'd prefer to boost men who are low to their partner's libidos and women to theirs as well. With re-synchronizing as times and circumstances changed. Thank you, Sungold. --fl]
Submitted by 3237 (not verified) on Mon, 2009-10-12 20:14.
Figleaf, I'm very glad you're not turning into St. Anthony ... or even St. Augustine.
The effects of SSRIs (not so much the other anti-depressants) can indeed extend to libido. I don't know if this effect is more common among women, though that's my impression. I don't know what's worse, actually - having the desire but no way to slake it, or not having any desire at all.
And as for boosting one's libido, the best way I know is free, fun, and has no risks other than those always associated with sex ... and that's just to have sex more often.
Also from the annals of ADT patients, some of them report feeling desire only once they're in the middle of trying to give their spouse pleasure - and then, all of a sudden, despite castrate-level testosterone, they take flight. That doesn't always happen, but that it does *at all* is pretty cool.
Submitted by 3237 (not verified) on Tue, 2009-10-13 10:17.
My experience with the SSRI antidepressant Zoloft was that it left me pretty interested in sex, but unable to remain focused long enough to have an orgasm. My therapist said, "Stop being so orgasm-centric; isn't sex fun without climax?" But getting close to an orgasm and then not having one left me feeling physically icky for hours afterwards. Kind of like a head cold in the genitals. So her advice wasn't much use.
I've had the experience of having a medication *increase* my libido, and I didn't care for that either. It was distracting and frustrating. I like it where it naturally is.
[Hi Mary Kaye. That was pretty much my experience years ago when I tried Effexor. No drop in my libido but almost impossible to come even by myself and orgasms with a partner were out of the question. I happen to agree, strongly, that for me sex was still really satisfying without orgasms. But your counselor was out of line for making you feel selfish for wanting to have them. Thanks! --fl]