Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon has a very cool and fairly generous analysis of the, um, controversy over the existence, or lack thereof, of the “g-spot.” (Controversial not least because of some… interesting theories coming out of the same research shop. Via Debbie at Body Impolitic their theory was that women are supposed to have an evolutionary hard time having orgasms in order to test men’s prowess. Seriously. But I digress….)
Anyway, as part of her discussion Amanda correctly, I think, says
It’s interesting to consider if the G spot only occurs in some women, which would explain the huge gap between experiences without further shaming of women who don’t have G spot orgasms.
This is just a snippet, almost an aside. Read the rest of her post here.
For the record that’s what the original authors thought as well.
I’ve mentioned this before but I remember from Beverly Whipple, Ladas, Perry, and company’s original The G Spot: And Other Discoveries about Human Sexuality that the introduction goes specifically into that exact issue that not all women can expect to have them, and that if not they specifically shouldn’t worry about it.
In fact the book as a whole said more about handling expectation and shame than about any kind of tissue stimulation at all.
The introduction mentions specifically that women who read Freud in the 1940s and 1950s were expected to feel guilty for having orgasms from clitoral stimulation, and then later, after reading Masters & Johnson they were expected to feel guilty for having orgasms from vaginal stimulation. The authors thought that was… unfortunate.
Later there’s a whole chapter devoted to the principle that “the best is the enemy of the good,” by which they meant specifically that if people tried to obsess over having or (worse, I think) giving g-spot orgasms they were likely to wind up disappointed with their ordinary old eye-rolling, breathtaking, toe-curling ones. And, sure enough… But be darned if anyone should blame the original authors for that.
Oh, and another thing, the same book also introduced the idea of prostate stimulation in men. Gee, wonder why that idea wasn’t greeted with such widespread enthusiasm? And gee, wonder why men who can’t have them aren’t judged as losers the way women who don’t do the g-spot thing are. And finally, gee, wonder why no researchers are doing twins studies to try and debunk prostate sensitivity. But again I digress.
G-spots and prostates notwithstanding, another big contribution the book made was to introduce the importance of the pubococcygeus (a.k.a “PC muscle”) for both men and women’s genital health and sexual enjoyment. The authors were pretty adamant that Kegels and other pc muscle exercises were pretty important both for increasing the strength of orgasms (of any kind but especially g-spot ones) but also for reducing incontinence and prolapsed uteruses. Their proposed exercises for women are well known but less well-known are the ones for men which involve draping rolled-up towels and making them, um, bob.
Hmm. The book’s not actually that much about the actual g-spot. It was actually pretty radical (and thus most everything but the squirting parts have largely been ignored.) I highly recommend it. It used to be a huge best seller and I’m guessing you can still find copies in used-paperback bookstores. I imagine, could those researchers in the U.K. had they been interested. Just saying.
Bottom line, though, is that if you or your partner has one then great, cool. As long as you’re enjoying yourself and not stressing about it don’t worry about what researcher say. And of you or your partner doesn’t have one then, well, that’s great too. As long as you’re enjoying yourself and not stressing about it don’t worry what researchers say.




It’s very weird to read a
Submitted by Holly Pervocracy (not verified) on Tue, 2010-01-05 05:46.It’s very weird to read a debate over something I can just reach in and feel. It’s like reading 3 pages about the existence or nonexistence of the human nose that ends with the conclusion that who knows, everyone is different and perhaps it doesn’t matter whether anyone really has a nose at all.
I’m not offended by the possibility that it’s “all in my head” for some fuzzy feminist reason but because it’s, dude, right there. I’m sure different people experience it very differently, I think that phrasing G-spot orgasms as some sort of imperative is clearly wrong, but… it’s right there! Maybe it’s really just the back of the clitoris, but that’s like calling the nose “really just a cartilage structure,” it’s semantics.
Whatever I’ve got, it’s both sensitive and palpable, and it’s deeply weird being told that it’s some magic feather or sexual fantasy, because… it’s right there!
[Oh Holly! How can you possibly trust your own direct and repeated corporeal experience when those guys were using… genetic (mumble-something) twin studies to (mumble) science! Anyway, yeah, I’ve felt it in people too. It’s there! Feels sort of nubbly or corrugated like the texture inside of the roof of my mouth. Swells when it’s stimulated the right way. Makes people make happy sounding noises you do. But not everybody. Because just because it doesn’t happen to everybody doesn’t mean it never happens to anybody. —fl]
I read Amanda’s piece earlier
Submitted by Kaija (not verified) on Tue, 2010-01-05 06:09.I read Amanda’s piece earlier this morning, but I like your framing of this as a historical flip-flop, much as with the history of the clitoris…lost, found, lost again, re-found, shelved/denied, stumbled upon again, etc. while real women everywhere shake their heads and keep doing what they have figured out does the job. Overwhelming historical and anecdotal evidence suggests that different things “work” for different people and anatomy varies, which is, I believe, the point of most of the research before it gets politicized.
As a scientist, I can firmly state that the #1 “gee whiz” observation that gets made over and over and over again in the lab (I think I’ve observed it about 6400 times myself) goes something like “wow…biological entities are amazingly/annoyingly variable in their structure and function!” If it’s true of something as small and mundane as cell cultures, the idea of extending that level of variation up to a whole human organism is like trying to grasp the idea of infinity (something I did as a kid to try to fall asleep)...I can follow it only so far and then the whole thing goes beyond my power to comprehend. Still, it exists.
The innate tendency for biologicals to have huge variability is a constant source of both wonder/amazement AND frustration in experimental work, e.g., “now why is the result different this time/day/this batch? why do these things seem to shift all over the damn place? why can’t they all just do the same thing all the time? so these things purposely do this to drive me mad?” Sometimes I swear the little buggers have minds of their own!
Which leads me to extrapolate my (more than) occasional lab frustration out to what we see in the G-spot research (and related work)...huge variability, hard to pin down “the norm”, one size does not fit all, what works here today may be different with another set on another day…which our tidy little brains DO NOT LIKE because we really want to construct a nice bin that holds everything and keeps all that “messiness” contained.
Great question about how prostate scrutiny/prostate stimulation has never quite caught on in the mainstream obsession with orgasms…very good compare and contrast gender material there. We sure seem to spend a lot of time, energy, and ink deconstructing and analyzing women’s anatomy and orgasms and pushing women to push their boundaries but funny how that doesn’t go both ways ;) Thanks for the awesome thinking point.
[Thanks, Kaija! There’s a very cool XKCD comic from the other day about the difference between what we wish science research was like and what it’s actually like. And yes, the biggest message I got out of the book was that the flip-flops are more about ideology than anatomy. And finally, yeah, funny about how prostate sensation doesn’t get the kind of interrogation women’s various “spots” do.
Just as funny, by the way, is that nobody goes all spelunking-headlamps about sensitivity in different regions of men’s penises — it’s not like every part of it has the same density of sensory nerves, nor is it the case that all men’s orgasmic focus is in the same location on the penis. Head? Some people. Frenulum? Some people. Underside halfway down? Some people. Down around the base? Some people. But not much talk at all about “h-spots” and “u-spots” or “b-spots” on men. I think there are a lot of interesting assumptions behind that little lacuna in curiosity. —fl]
Yes! I did see that comic
Submitted by Kaija (not verified) on Wed, 2010-01-06 03:35.Yes! I did see that comic (xkcd is one of my nerdy favorites) and sent it to several friends family members, who probably get just as tired of me commenting on TV/movie science as on gender portrayals. :/ But once you are able to really "see" stuff like that, you can't ignore it.
And today's xkcd (http://xkcd.com/685/) is coincidentally about the G-spot existence flap...and in my opinion, sort of pokes fun at people making statements/drawing conclusions about areas that they might not be intimately familiar with. :)