You know how pretty within minutes a feminist mentioning rape culture online a Men’s Rights Activist or other anti-feminist is going to chime in with either “but women commit rape too” or “but men get raped too?” Many of them get awesomely passionate about their real or potential or at least hypothetical experiences on the receiving end.
So… quick question: when it comes to the now-overflowing allegations of sexual assault and exploitation of boys in the Catholic Church hierarchy what is the MRA position and what, if anything, are MRAs doing about it?
I ask because I genuinely don’t know: I don’t ordinarily follow MRAs enough to be able to track the credible ones so MRAs could be all over this and I just haven’t heard. If so, though, Google is being unusually nonforthcoming about it. So I had to ask.
This is another one of those areas where society in general, and men in particular, have been freeloading off of feminist women for nearly 40 years. Who’s done the heavy lifting on issues like, oh, say, rape? Who’s done the heavy lifting on issues like, oh, say, authority-based sexual coercion and harassment and the abuse of power differentials for sex? Women have. Mostly feminist women.
And yeah, sure, inside our social narratives that makes 100% sense. And even in reality, since the vast majority of those raped, coerced, harassed, bought, sold, and otherwise leveraged are women it still makes 75-85% sense that women would have been most motivated to pull that weight.
But look at the stuff going on in the Church. I’m confident there’s another shoe out there waiting to drop on sexual abuse of girls by priests. I mean, we haven’t been hearing about it but it’s bound to turn up. But you know what? In the meantime it’s about priests sexually abusing boy, after boy, after boy, after boy after boy, after boy, after…
If ever, on the planet, there was a legitimate issue for men to get involved in you’d think it would be the issue of shocking numbers of boys and young men being molested, raped, abused and generally sexually preyed upon by, largely, other men. It ought to be a major issue particularly for men who claim simply to be attempting to organize themselves politically and socially the way women have already been doing for several generations.
Because, it’s turning out, men really do get raped too! In very large numbers. And whereas one particularly ill-organized church is in the spotlight I’m… pretty sure once people really start asking questions they’re going to start discovering lots, and lots, and lots of other denominational vectors for abuse of men and boys. Lots of secular ones too. (Not even including the nervous heh-heh-don’t-drop-the-soap prevalence of prison rape.)
And it’s not like sexual assault of boys doesn’t have profound influence on them! It’s not like trauma, ambiguity, neuroses, and sexualization doesn’t happen to boys either. (Secondary question: how different would men’s sexual behavior be if some fraction of former boys weren’t trying to regain control after loss of their own sexual autonomy? Food for thought.)
So you’d think this issue would just be tailor made for MRAs. And yet I’m really hearing nothing. (Remember, there could be lots of MRAs saying it, but if I’m not hearing it…)
At any rate, this appears to be yet another area where men are seriously getting free rides on the backs of feminist pioneers. And it seems like if the men’s movements and men’s rights movements are serious about their stated intentions this would be a very, very good time for them to begin stepping up to the plate.
Denial based on Rule of Desire #2 is no longer a valid excuse.




Re: hearing mainly about
Submitted by Laura Fox (not verified) on Tue, 2010-03-30 09:12.Re: hearing mainly about abuse of boys, one of the documentaries out there about sexually abusive priests—-I’m pretty sure it’s Amy Berg’s “Deliver Us From Evil”—-focuses on a priest who abused both boys and girls, and there’s a chilling scene of a higher church official being questioned about why a second victim did or didn’t make him decide to act, and he says “That was a girl, this was a boy.” As though that made some kind of difference in the deplorability or shockingness. Whether that speaks to sexism in the Catholic hierarchy (breaking news, huh?) or a more general sense that abuse of boys is more cause for attention (as a more shocking “man-bites-dog” kind of story), I don’t know…
I heard a German woman about
Submitted by Sungold (not verified) on Tue, 2010-03-30 20:59.I heard a German woman about my age being interviewed on NPR several days ago. She referred to being vaginally raped when she was maybe 8 or 10.
I suspect that this kind of abuse is almost always primarily about power and a seriously warped relation to one’s libido. That would make sexual “orientation” perhaps a tertiary factor.
The German arm of this scandal is chilling me in a way that the American scandals did not. I know people who’ve gone to those Jesuit schools. I married one! (He’s OK. Or rather, he didn’t suffer sexual abuse.) I’m trying to think of a way to write about this that’s not just distanced/abstract nor one long scream of outrage.
Figleaf, have you been talking to ballgame? He might be willing to take this on within the MRA-friendly community. I haven’t popped over to Feminist Critics lately (no time, no energy) but that seems like a logical start for pushing your idea that MRAs should be shouting from the rooftops. Because really, they should.
Some time ago, I read that
Submitted by chingona (not verified) on Wed, 2010-03-31 06:30.Some time ago, I read that there actually have been far more cases of girls and women being sexually abused than boys, but that the sexual abuse of boys has gotten much more media attention because of the shock value. Of course, now I don’t remember where I’ve read it and have no idea if the statement was based on actual evidence or just speculation.
If true, it strikes me that there’s two factors there – the dead girl/live boy factor, where the sexual abuse of women is considered so commonplace and routine that it takes an extra level of depravity (torture, murder) to shock the sensibilities – but also, and perhaps more pernicious in terms of the church’s ability to address this, is a lack of understanding that the fundamental problem is the grotesque abuse of power, not, in and of itself, that sex was involved. The witch hunt against gays in the church, as well as the public/media shock that so much abuse has involved boys, seems to stem from a basic misunderstanding – whether accidental or intentional – about what it is that is/was going on. Like – celibacy is hard, and men “naturally” want to have sex with women – so “having sex” with a woman/girl is just a matter of personal weakness – while “having sex” with a man/boy is a sign of depravity even when there is no coercion – and not really grappling with the fact that this wasn’t “having sex” the way any of us would understand that term. And so while I don’t think the emphasis on celibacy is irrelevant to what happened and how it happened, I’m sometimes uncomfortable with the way ending that policy gets held up as the cure-all. (There have been numerous sexual abuse scandals in Orthodox yeshivas, and all those rabbis are married.)
Anyway, that’s not really responsive to the question in your post. I, too, try to stay away from MRA sites, so I don’t really know what they have or haven’t been saying. My impression is that, in addition to ballgame, that Toy Soldier also has talked quite a bit about sexual abuse of boys, but I don’t know what he’s had to say about the Catholic Church in particular.
As I came across some actual
Submitted by chingona (not verified) on Sat, 2010-04-03 06:32.As I came across some actual statistics the other day, I feel like I ought to add an addendum for posterity’s sake. Andrew Sullivan linked to a study that found that 20 percent of victims were female. I’m pretty sure this means younger victims, and that inappropriate relationships with adult parishioners were not the subject of this study. There could, obviously, be some reporting issues that skew the numbers, but given that male victims of sexual abuse are even less likely than to come forward than female victims (in general, at least), I highly doubt reporting issues would get us from 20 percent to 50 percent.
In response, a reader who has been seen a large number of case reports in his role representing an insurance company asked to cover some of the settlements wrote in and commented that in the cases he had seen, the priests who had abused male victims abused many, many more victims – dozens of boys, sometimes hundreds – just that we know about – while the priests who abused female victims often abused just one or two – and that the priests who abused boys seemed to be engaged in much more systematic predation that involved extensive grooming of victims and insinuating themselves into the victim’s families, while the priests who abused girls seemed to seize random opportunities without going through such extensive efforts in advance to create those opportunities and ensure their victims wouldn’t be believed.
There are a number of posts over at his blog, including at least one from a woman who was molested as a girl. This one includes the comments from the reader who had seen the case reports and a link to the study (which I haven’t had time to read – just the stat’s Andrew pulled).
MRA show their true colours
Submitted by M Evans (not verified) on Fri, 2010-08-06 09:21.MRA show their true colours in situations such as these. The fact that what they’re really all about is resentment of women, not men’s rights. This isn’t something they can easily fob off on feminism, the abusers aren’t female, there’s no excuse to bash women, therefore nothing.
[Kind of hard to argue with,
Submitted by figleaf on Fri, 2010-08-06 09:55.[Kind of hard to argue with, eh? It’s been months… maybe years since the scandal broke and… nothing! As you say, you can’t possibly blame it on feminism so for all their concern trolling there’s no there there.
Thanks, M,
fl
However, I’ve seen a MRA show
Submitted by M Evans (not verified) on Fri, 2010-08-06 19:22.However, I’ve seen a MRA show support for the Vatican when a spokesman claimed feminism ‘erodes masculinity’.
The thing is, there ARE genuine men’s rights issues. The abuse of all these boys is an obvious example. The added shame and social pressure on male rape victims, who tend to be excluded from a lot of victim support. Boys not engaging in school. Patriarchal gender roles harming men. ‘Affirmative action’ harming the careers of innocent men (not to mention creating a culture where nobody knows if they got their job fairly anymore, thereby creating more backlash against women.)
But who are the men (and women) doing something about this? They’re the ‘manginas’ among the feminists who may not complain as loudly or bang war drums, so don’t get the attention.
Trouble is, the word ‘feminism’ IS a bit divisive and gender specific. Time for gender-neutral human rights, maybe? Really, we’re better off working together.