Speaking of the myth of male indifference to appearance, while trying (I think) to be sympathetic to the plight of DebrahLee Lorenzana, who was fired for looking too “provocative,” brooklynbadboy of Daily Kos hits a bird and eventually crashes into the Brooklyn Bridge.
For men, it’s difficult to dress provocatively. Men have to go pretty far over the edge to provoke any sort of response, excepting for men in uniform. You’d have to wear extremely tight pants around the crotch, no shirt, and basically parade around like a peacock. Otherwise, for men, a standard issue suit or jeans and workboots constitute a rather simple workplace habit. In fact, for most fellas who don’t wear a suit everyday, casual dress rather closely resembles work attire. Personally, I grab whatever shirt, tie, and dark suit that appears clean and put it on, sometimes not even noticing various stains until I have my coffee. No matter the body type, it’s pretty difficult for a man to get it wrong when going to work.
Really? As long as I’m speaking of things, how about speaking of homophobia and homophobia-phobia?. How’s about showing up at the bank in a skirt? Or even just an impeccably bespoke-tailored lavender suit?
Even if you’re straight.
If your own homophobia won’t do it your fear of… provoking homophobia probably will.
You wanna know why most guys really wear “a standard issue suit or jeans and workboots constitut[ing] a rather simple workplace habit?” It ain’t just simplicity, champs, it’s fear.
(Note: Simplicity is one convenient, comfortable, and affordable side effect of homophobia and homophobia-phobia. But it’s still just a side effect.)
Tags:
Good point, Figleaf. For what
Submitted by maymay (not verified) on Mon, 2010-06-07 22:08.Good point, Figleaf. For what it’s worth, I live in San Francisco but I still hesitate (a little) to put on my cap-sleeve shirt if I know I’ll be walking through the less queer-friendly parts of town. The idea that “it’s pretty difficult for a men to get it wrong” is only true if you think mens’ only options are the ones they put in the Mens’ Section of the department store.
I’m so glad I found me a bi
Submitted by Plymouth (not verified) on Mon, 2010-06-07 22:48.I’m so glad I found me a bi boy. He wears skirts. Bi boys are THE BEST!!
I guess it is a matter of
Submitted by fiveofnine (not verified) on Tue, 2010-06-08 03:42.I guess it is a matter of taste. What broklynbadboy describes, I would not see as provocative.
I think it is more than just homophobia, it is the fear of not fitting in with the acceptable American image. Can not have any hint of ethnicity or the sporting life.
[“fear of not fitting in with the acceptable American image.” I see that too. Thanks, Five. —fl]
for me it doesn’t really
Submitted by sex toys (not verified) on Tue, 2010-06-08 04:25.for me it doesn’t really matters till the guy looks cute enough to impress me hahaha….
Women simply have way more
Submitted by PattyCake (not verified) on Tue, 2010-06-08 05:49.Women simply have way more leeway when it comes to “proper business attire.” Men’s business clothes haven’t significantly changed in 200 years. It’s still your basic jacket, pants, tie, button-down shirt that is “acceptable”. The only thing that ever changes is the cut.
For labourers, it’s belted cotton pants, and short sleeve shirt in hot weather and long sleeve cotton in cool weather. You could pull your clothes from a store in 1910 and show up at the job site, and people may wonder where you got the riveted jeans, but it wouldn’t be inappropriate.
The only thing that seems to have changed is whether it’s acceptable to go out without your hat.
And the classic English version of the business suit hasn’t changed for even longer than that! In the 1970s the art (and social) critic John Gardner pointed out that until approximately the advent of the business suit men typically dressed far more colorfully, more expensively, and with more frills, ruffles, stockings, garters, and wigs than women. Another author (from the 1980s who I can’t recall… she wrote on the politics of fashion and did a book on the business suit) said that modern society was helped enormously when men were no longer able to distinguish themselves by appearance and consequently had to distinguish themselves with ideas. She said she thought the much more recent advent of the corresponding business skirt/jacket combination might let women be noticed more for their ideas too. I’m not positive about that but based on how long it took men’s suits to catch on it might just be too early to tell. Thanks, PattyCake —fl]
Well, let’s not go jumping
Submitted by Thaddeus Blanchette (not verified) on Tue, 2010-06-08 13:04.Well, let’s not go jumping all overboard here. There are plenty of gay guys who go for the “simple slob” look, too. Are they homophobic? I’m straight myself and enjoy this look because it’s COMFORTABLE. I am wholly aware that I am privileged to be allowed to dress like a slob, but I thank God everyday that I was born a guy so I can get away with it without raising too many brows.
Let’s be real: fashion slaves aren’t comfortable, more often than not and plenty of us “simple slobs” prize that far more than our (often dubious) masculine credentials.
Btw and fwiw, I am mostly attracted to women who go for the simple, no perfume, no makeup, sensible shoes look. Most of my female partners have been accused of being lesbians over the years, so go figure.
[Just to be clear I’m not talking so much about fear of being gay, I’m talking about fear of being identified as gay. That’s why I’ve lately been emphasizing homophobia-phobia (the fear of the consequences of being targeted by homophobes.) Thanks, Thaddeus. —fl]
Well, I still don’t know.
Submitted by Thaddeus (not verified) on Wed, 2010-06-09 09:01.Well, I still don’t know. I’ve been qualified as queer by many Johnny Pissoff types in spite of the fact that I dress like a slob. Don’t forget that the punk look is also qualified as “non-manly”. So yeah, while I understand what you’re saying – that guys are afraid of looking gay because of what might happen to them – looking rough has never been a defense. At least, I’ve never found it to be.
Nonetheless, men aren’t in
Submitted by Sungold (not verified) on Tue, 2010-06-08 19:57.Nonetheless, men aren’t in the same workplace double-bind as Lorenzana. From reading the comment section at the Village Voice (yes, I was really wasting time) I get the impression that she really did mess up in some substantive ways – as did her employers. The few people who’d actually worked with her wrote of arriving late, cutting out on work, and generally behaving like a diva.
But it’s the rare man who has to worry how much cleavage he can show – or how little – before he’s labeled either a slut or a frump. Ditto for legs.
Yeah, men’s clothing is mostly unimaginative as a result, and it drives me nuts when I’m shopping for my boys, who would enjoy more fun with colors if it were available. (Tie-dye is still a big hit with them.) But men’s clothes are usually pretty comfortable, compared to women’s. I get that some men feel uncomfortable in a tie – I know I’d find it constricting – but give it to me over high heels and nylons any day.
@ Maymay: enjoy the couture options of SF. Out here in Ohio, you’d be a rare bird indeed in cap sleeves.
@ figleaf: I think you’d look marvelous in a well-tailored lavendar suit, though I’d suggest you go for a more saturated version of it – not too pale – otherwise it will fade to gray, and so might you. If you’re gonna be bold, then no need for any of those “powder” colors so popular for groomsmen in 1970s weddings. (Then again, if you’ve got pictures of yourself in a colorful leisure suit from back then, that would make an awesome HNT ...)
Aren’t men’s dress styles too
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 2010-06-09 02:30.Aren’t men’s dress styles too warm in the summer? I can walk around in a little, floating dress, but you’re not allowed to show too much of your skin or your shape…
Just think about if the
Submitted by fiveofnine (not verified) on Wed, 2010-06-09 06:37.Just think about if the battle to wear shorts on campus (the sixties)had lasted longer, guys might have gotten really comfortable in wearing skirts. It may have become fashionable. Even though it was a protest, i think that some did feel comfortable.
Back in my undergrad days at
Submitted by Thaddeus (not verified) on Wed, 2010-06-09 19:28.Back in my undergrad days at the U.W. Madison, we had a sexist supervisor at the student union who allowed female workers to wear dresses in the summer, but wouldn’t allow men to wear shorts.
We complained and the silly fuck said “It’s not sexist. If you boys want to wear dresses go right ahead.” To make matters even better, he said it on the record in front of our union rep.
The very next day, 80% of the guys came to work in skirts and we continued on in that vein all summer long. Some guys kept it up for over three years.
Men’s dress styles are too
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 2011-09-26 10:17.Men’s dress styles are too warm in the summer? We can practically walk around in a little, floating dress, not allowed to show too much of the skin or your shape…