Relationships

If Men Are Great Hulking Indifferent Brutes Why Do They Want Partners Who'll Make Them Feel Special... The Wrong Way

Photo by Flickr user CaptPiper. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Photo "Flake in the Sun" by Flickr user CaptPiper. Used under a Creative Commons license.

Riffing on an article from American University's school paper on women and "the number," Amanda Hess discovers this little jewel that neatly calls into question pretty much every cliché about men's ravenous, conscience-free libidos.

"When someone has been with so many partners, it’s hard to distinguish yourself as ‘special’ to them if they’re willing to do that with so many people . . . You start to feel like just a number.” Um, precisely!

Source: TDB

What gets me is that I seem to be more of a "ravenous, conscience-free" man than... an awful lot of men who are out there trying to hook up. Which is kind of funny. My basic attitude in life is for sex to be approximately as casual as partner dancing. With the caveat that I wouldn't treat dance partners like disposable or interchangeable alien others either.

I'd also add that stuff like this, which you hear from men over and over, also belies the standard construction of men as uncaring sex-hungry brutes.  As compared to women.  Who, we are relentlessly instructed to believe, are the only ones who need to feel "special" before "going all the way."

This is not to mock men's desire to feel special, incidentally.  At all!  Or women!  Nobody wants to be taken for granted or, worse, deprecated whether for their sexuality or anything else.

That does raise the question, though, of what a young man who a) prefers to be his partner's first while presumably b) not actually being all that concerned about his own number of partners, and possibly even c) not terribly happy if his own number of partners became a roadblock to his own further success.

In other words it's not about wanting to be special, but it might be a question of how.

Consider that it's actually not a huge issue for most women if their partners have themselves had previous partners.  For whatever reason (and when you think about it it is a bit of a mystery) despite the universal desire to feel special women by and large don't put the same premium on inexperienced partners as do men.

Neither, when you really think about it, should men.  Because, when you do think about it, if women can still feel special even with an experienced partner then why should men be any more fragile or needy for inexperience in their partners?

Update: I'm putting this post on the Two Rules of Desire page. Anxiety about Rule #2 might have something to do with men's anxiety about experienced partners, on the peculiar assumption that if he couldn't possibly compare favorably if she has other men to compare him to. Which is silly but sad.

Update #2: A comment from Jerry reminded of a pretty obvious corollary I really should have mentioned: plenty of people, women and men, don't end up confusing love and lust.  And for the most part whether it's as complicated as wanting to feel specially validated or as simply as wanting to have an especially lovely evening, people's feelings aren't as cleanly divided by X or Y chromosomes as conservative oxytocin-adherents achingly long for it to be.


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The No-Sex Class and Paying For Sex By Paying For Dinner and Flowers

Photo by Flickr user KC-Bike. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Photo by Flickr user KC-Bike. Used under a Creative Commons license.

Holly, who's been quietly been posting a very readable series on rape culture, beautifully summarizes the no-sex class underpinnings of the transactional-sex model of heterosexuality. The third paragraph is pretty chilling. I've emphasized the key sentence.

The "Consent as Contract" Model.

I believe that consent consists of wanting to have sex or do another activity. In practical terms, when you're with a non-telepath, consent requires expressing that desire, but the expression still isn't the important part; the desire is.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem to see consent this way. Instead, it's a binding contract: generally in exchange for something, a woman commits her pussy as payment. She isn't really expected to enjoy the sex; she's expected to tolerate it, and enjoy the dinner or jewelry or hugs or however the fuck this is supposed to work. Therefore, a woman in a situation that seems to be leading up to sex who then refuses to have sex is in breach of contract (and frankly being a little unreasonable), and letting her off the hook is an act of grudging generosity on the man's part. And a woman having sex without making the consent contract is being ripped off, but not really violated, because pussy is just a tool women wield dispassionately anyway.

This mindset doesn't just justify and trivialize rape; it also makes for some really shitty consensual sex, based on the "you're not supposed to like this part, you're supposed to like the dinner and this part is for me" mindset. Which ultimately doesn't even work out that great for guys, because "here, fine, have my pussy, you've earned it" isn't exactly a recipe for brutally passionate lovemaking.

Source: The Pervocracy

That last part just crisply summarizes how we can live in rape culture even though most men would never consider committing criminal sexual assault style rape.

Call it the intolerable clause in bogus Rule #1: In the transactional model of heterosexuality it just wouldn't feel fair for the women to enjoy both the dinner/movie/diamond/flowers/whatever and the sex.

But, as Holly says, sex with someone who's only grudgingly holding up her end of "the bargain" isn't exactly going to be something to write home about.  And is likely to be attractive only to someone who's mired to the eyeballs in bogus Rule #2.


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Pickup Artists May Need to Avoid Germany... Assuming This Gender-Preference Research Applies Only to Germans of Course

In a post titled "Germans prefer looks over wallet size," Patrick Morgan has some very bad news for sundry rump evolutionary psychologists, pickup artists, and all-round cranky misogynists (emphasis his)

Results of an explorative empirical study on human mating in Germany: handsome men, not high-status men, succeed in courtship.

Recent research on human mating depicts men as searching for physical attractiveness (PA) and women as searching for status.

...

Surprisingly, the answers given by male and female subjects regarding sociosexual behaviour and mating preferences are predominantly congruent. Sex differences among preferences for good looking and high-status partners were small or even insignificant. Lower educated subjects had considerably higher status preferences than higher educated individuals. In both sexes, PA was much more preferred in a potential partner than status. For both sexes, physical appearance was decisive for the subject’s dating attractiveness.

Source: Discover Blogs NCBI ROFL

Actually it's surprising if and only if you fall for the first bogus Rule of Desire. If you do then you're going to be a lot more comfortable believing that women are more attracted to money or power than to, you know, physical desirability.

If you're over all that then you're probably going to be even more comfortable with (yet, still, further) confirmation that both men and women are human beings.


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Why I Prefer Feminist Mormon Housewives to Man-Hating, Anti-Feminist Laura Schlessinger Any Day

Bingo!  Reviewing a book called The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura Schlessinger,  Winterbuzz hits the nail on the head about Schlessinger reflexive and constant feminist bashing in the book (emphasis mine)

Let the record show that I, a feminist, have never condemned a man based on his gender. Her title alone suggests that males are “stupid” or at the very least on par with a barnyard animal.

Source: Feminist Mormon Housewives

That's just about as on target as it gets: when people ask me why I'm so comfortable with feminism, or why other men should be into feminism, it's because nobody hates men like anti-feminists hate us, nobody fears men as much as anti-feminists fear us, and nobody wants to regulate or control men as completely as anti-feminists want to regulate or control us.

And nobody, not even Twisty Faster, has more contempt for men than anti-feminists like "Doctor" Laura Schessinger has contempt for us!  As Winterbuzz pithily snarks of one tidbit of "advice" for wives.

"Thank him for bringing home his paycheck and not spending it on gambling or booze or drugs or women."

(Since you’re a man, naturally gambling, booze, drugs and women are the only things you’d like to spend your hard-earned cash on.)

Or check out this Schlessinger snippet of man-hatred Winterbuzz digs up.

[M]en are simple creatures who come from a woman, are nurtured and brought up by a woman, and yearn for the continued love, admiration and approval of a woman. . . Women need to better appreciate the magnitude of their power and influence over men, and not misuse or abuse it.

To which she replies

I am soooo tired of men being described as sex-crazed animals who can barely control their urges. I’m raising boys and this offends me. My husband, brother, father and children are more than lusty lions.

I’m not trying to get off subject, but I think this idea is so pervasive in our church, it’s needs addressing...

Does that mean there's nothing to criticize about men?  No.  But Winterbuzz makes the strongly feminist case that men are as subject to the system of Patriarchy as women.  And, also with strongly feminist sensibilities, she makes the case that the way out is not more of the anti-feminism Schlessinger and her male and female allies long for.  (Again, emphasis mine.)

Reducing men to sex-crazed animals who can’t control themselves absolves them from responsibility and self control. And while boys might lust after girls, society has proven that no matter what we do to curb this, it still happens.  It’s nature friends! The perpetuation of the species kinda depends on it. But that’s an argument for another day, the bottom line is girls should not be taught that their bodies are tools for the whims of men. Girls are objectified everyday in many, many way, and using religion to perpetuate those attitudes is called spiritual violence. Our church (and this book) objectifies women as domestic objects. And while our church might not mean to do it, it contributes to an attitude that continues to claim that men are weak, over-sexed animals and women are responsible to counteract that.

Got that last bit?  Anti-feminists don't resent feminists for putting men down.  They resent that feminists are refusing to sacrifice themselves to keep men down.  The complete failure to recognize this near mirror-image of reality is the source of almost all misunderstanding of the relationship of feminism to men. Because unlike women like Schlessinger feminists want to be men's peers, not our subordinates and certainly not our minders, mothers, wranglers, or butlers.  And straight feminists (and almost all feminists are) want partners they can respect in the morning.

When your entire expectation is, as Schlessinger approvingly quotes a caller as saying, "Men are only interested in two things: If I’m not horny, make me a sandwich," there's no, zero, none room for respect.

I'll take feminists any day, thank you.


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If a Sufficient but Simpler Solution is Preferable Then Terri Conley's Pleasure Theory Outcompetes Sexual Strategy Theory

There's a lot of buzz in the press and blogosphere about a study by Professor Terri D. Conley of the University of Michigan called "Perceived Proposer Personality Characteristics and Gender Differences in Acceptance of Casual Sex Offers" from the February 2011 issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

As with virtually all science research paid for with taxpayer dollars you (or if you're in academia, your employers) have to pay $30 to a private company (that adds exactly zero additional value) in order to read it.  Consequently pretty much nobody who's talks about such studies have actually read the study!

Thomas of Yes Means Yes spent the money.  And came up with a lot of stereotype-debunking gold.

The bottom line, after testing multiple variations of a standard experiment that's supposed to measure men's vs. women's receptivity to out-of-the-blue propositions, Prof. Conley draws two counterintuitive but perfectly logical conclusions:

1) Rather than testing individual's receptivity to propositions the original experiment actually tests individual's stereotypes about whether men or women who make out-of-the-blue propositions are likely to be any good in bed.

2) Women are just as likely as men to accept an out-of-the-blue proposition based on whether or not they expect the resulting sex to be a pleasurable experience!

Or to put it another way

2a) Men are no more likely than women to accept an out-of-the-blue proposition when there's an expectation that the sex won't be pleasurable.

While I'd love to talk about the permutations Conley went through to confirm her finding, Thomas does a very thorough job.

And besides, if did that I'd miss the coolest part.  Conley's findings poke a big, fat hole in the gender-stereotype-driven theory that, unlike men, women make strategic decisions to have sex based on how "high-status" she perceives the man to be.  It's a theory beloved of Pickup Artists, economists, sociobiologists, and evolutionary psychologists.  It's also evidently bullshit.

Here's how Thomas puts it.

By contrast, this research demonstrated some of the limiting conditions of SST. Sexual strategies theory clearly predicts that higher status proposers should be accepted by women more readily than low-status proposers. The fact that status did not predict women’s acceptance of casual sex offers is therefore a problem for SST. Neither status, nor tendency for gift giving, nor perceived faithfulness of the proposer (nor, more precisely, the interaction of any of these variables with gender) predicted whether a participant would agree to the sexual offer, contradicting SST. Likewise, if men’s central goal, as suggested by SST, is to transfer their genetic material to future generations, men should have a greater base rate likelihood of accepting a sexual offer from any woman than women have of accepting a sexual offer from any man, regardless of the proposer’s attractiveness (i.e., women should be choosier than men). SST does not predict that women would be equally likely to accept offers as men when (a) the proposers are very attractive, (b) the proposers are very unattractive, (c) the proposers are familiar people, and (d) the proposer and the individual are of the same sex.

Source: Yes Means Yes

Conely's Pleasure Theory is sufficient to but simpler and more general than the far more complex cycles and epicycles of Sexual Strategies Theory.  Occam's Razor (plus intuition) therefore says Conely gets the nod. That doesn't mean SST isn't possible, just that it requires considerably more cognition to assess the complexity of status in humans the onus falls on its supporters to explain why we shouldn't abandon it.

Incidentally Conoly's findings also call bullshit on the sociobiological assumption that men's attraction to women is based on whether or not they're in their "reproductive prime."  In a variation that used participant-selected celebrities, male respondents speculated that they would respond more positively to an out-of-the-blue proposition by Christie Brinkley than by Roseanne Barr, even though they perceived (inaccurately it turns out) that Brinkley is the older of the two.  (At 57 Brinkley is well past reproductive age, let alone in her "reproductive prime.")


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Turns Out Polygamy, But Not Monogamy or Polyamory, Imposes High Reproductive Costs on Women

Sooo....

If I was a pop evolutionary psychologist or sociobiologist I might spend all my time pondering how it's just seed-spreadingly natural for men to want to be polygamous.

Oh, silly, me.  Actually if I was a pop evolutionary psychologist or sociobiologist I wouldn't ponder any such thing.  I'd take it as axiomatic -- requiring no proof beyond "makes sense to me" -- and cheerfully use that axiom to prove anything else that popped into my little brain. When pressed by people with a modicum of gender-studies in their background I'd blithly breeze by way of explanation that hogamous-higamous, men are polygamous.

The other axiom I'd posit would be that women just don't like sex in the first place, and that therefore they're grudgingly going to aim to have it as infrequently as possible, preferably with as few men as possible.  And explain that with higamous-hogamous, women are monogamous.  Oh, and bitches too.  Oh, or if they didn't match my axiom, whores.

In evolutionary biology, on the other hand, it's more common to actually ponder whether there might be a reproductive benefit or cost underlying any inclination towards something like monogamy.

Something like this tidbit, via from Holly of Self-Portrait as, who says --

...low fertility rates among Mormon polygamists. My favorite bit:

the more women partnered with a man, the fewer children each of those women had. Exactly why is not clear. Like the Soay rams, men may simply not have had the stamina.... The failure of the Utah polygamy experiment should therefore not be seen as that surprising.

Source: Self-Portrait as

Reading the article it sounds like, in fact, on average, women in polygamous marriages tend to have approximately one fewer child for every fellow "sister wife."  And no, that's not a stretch.  Stories of sultans or Mormon patriarchs notwithstanding, most polygamists have somewhere closer to two to four wives, meaning a one-child per fellow wife isn't going to put anyone in negative numbers.

Anyway, EPs and sociobiologists tend to go on, and on, and on, about how men can fertilize bazillions of women in a lifetime while women's "investment" of pregnancy, lactation, and staying home in the cave-kitchen limits their reproductive potential to a relative handful.  And they brass on about how that means men are "naturally" likely to collect wives and partners willy-nilly whereas women are going to just as "naturally" be all gate-keeper-y and discriminating.

Which never made much sense to me -- in the real, non-Flintstones version of "the state of nature" related groups of women with satellite groups of men seems pretty common, and those groups of related women are usually able to collectively gather and trap enough to feed themselves and most of the men.  So while women might tend to care about fathers, and be interested in having men in their lives, and definitely interested in the meat and other foodstuffs men tend to hunt and forage for.  So in pure reproductive survival terms that's never seemed like a good enough reason to "evolve" a preference for monogamy.

If I were to going to assume that women are "naturally" monogamous, though, and if I were further inclined to go looking for facile sociobiological explanations for why that might be, then the likelihood that getting rooked into polygamy creates a material reduction in women's reproductive potential ought to be just about all I'd need to start making that case.

---

Getting back to the original article, the reference to Soay rams is about a variety of sheep that do the whole alpha male head-butting fights over harems thing... but basically run out of sperm.  In comments someone pointed out the tendency for women to ovulate in sync.  That would tend to put a pretty heavy limit on men's ability to productively "spread his seed" in his own "harem."

Which in turn leads me back to the suspicion that "collecting" wives is probably a relatively recent function of property accumulation rather than some sort of "on the savannah" biological adaptation.

---

Note that whereas women (and females of other species) are evidently reproductively harmed by polygamy, there wouldn't necessarily be the same issues with polyamory, either overt or covert.  So whereas men might be concerned about "cuckoldry," women (in polygamous marriages anyway) would positively benefit from it.  But in monogamy?  Not so much -- which at the very least ought to be a monogamy selectivity-stabilizer for men. (Don't hold your breath waiting for a pop sociobiologist to bring that one up.)


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Do Men Have Some Catching Up to Do? Sure, But It's Not Women We Need to Catch Up With -- It's Our Own Supressed Potential

Image by Flickr user x-ray delta one. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Image by Flickr user x-ray delta one, Used under a Creative Commons license.

Reflecting Kay Hymowtz's latest lazy anti-feminist screed in the Wall Street Journal, Kay Steiger notes that

Kay Hymowitz and I might share a first name, but there seems to be little else that we share. She's written about dating and marriage in the past, saying, "By the early twentieth century, things had evolved so that in the United States, at any rate, a man knew the following: he was supposed to call for a date; he was supposed to pick up his date; he was supposed to take his date out, say, to a dance, a movie, or an ice-cream joint; if the date went well, he was supposed to call for another one; and at some point, if the relationship seemed charged enough—or if the woman got pregnant—he was supposed to ask her to marry him."

Source: Kay Steiger

Hymowitz is just so full of shit. That whole litany at the beginning about what men had "learned" by the beginning of the 20th Century? Any idea who all that learning, and the resulting behavior, was intended to impress? The prospective date's parents (mostly her father)... who at the time were still the arbiters of whether their daughter's "hand" would be given to the boy. For marriage or anything else.

The idea that increased empowerment for (young, single) women has automatically meant decreased power for their prospective young, single suitors is almost as novel as the idea that young single men have ever had very much power. Even if you were to buy Hymowitz's claims without reservation (which I wouldn't recommend) then the primary difference for young single men at the beginning of the 20th Century and the beginning of the 21st would be that decision-making power has shifted from young women's fathers to the women themselves.

And dear sweet mother of pearl let's not point out that Hymowitz's deprecation of today's callow, snot-nosed, "self-abusing" men is nothing compared to the combined scorn and anxiety heaped on them towards the end of the 19th Century.

It's not quite true that those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. Instead it's that those who don't know history doom us to hearing the same alarums raised generation after generation.

Do men have a little catching up to do? Sure. But it's not women we need to catch up with. It's residual patriarchy -- internalized and external -- that's holding us back.

I'd just add that patriarchy being a co-ed enterprise, Hymowitz's punditry is part of the problem for men, not part of the solution.

I'd also point out that, predictably, Hymowitz's subtext isn't that women make men small. It's the classic anti-feminist subtext that men are such sniveling losers that the only way to make them look big is to hold women back. The reason I like feminism is feminism's enduring faith in men's ability to rise to meet ordinary expectations. Anti-feminists? Not so much.

And she wants us to believe that feminists are the man haters!


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Speaking of Musical Lyrics, A Question for Em & Lo Makes Me Wonder if "Why Can't a Woman Be More Like A Man?" Isn't Already True

"Unwilling Goddess" wrote Em & Lo asking for advice on the following problem.

Dear Em & Lo,

How does one gracefully say “Thanks, but no thanks”? It seems to happen a lot to me: I treat the guy like a friend — meaning I don’t make innuendo (no puns please!) nor banter, etc., I just converse fercrissake! — and a few weeks (or months, or hours) later he’s dropping heavy hints and gazing at me with That Look. I then try to avoid any situations that may lead him on; i.e. refusing a drink together, though I wouldn’t mind having a friendly one. Also, I don’t want to lose friends who suddenly want to move it a notch further than I really want. Any ways to let them down gently?

– Unwilling Goddess

Source:

I don't really have a lot of advice for dealing with this. But I can look at the question from a couple of different perspectives.

It sounds as if the correspondent would find it more convenient if men didn’t grow more romantically attracted to women as they get to know them better, spend more time around them, and just generally appreciate all their qualities, and not just be turned on by the superficialities of their faces, hair, or booties. In actuality, though, a lot of men have exactly those romantic qualities that are more often attributed to stereotypes of women.

And looking at the question from yet another angle, surely the correspondent isn’t suggesting that women base their attractions to partners on initial hormonal response and thus never become more attracted to them as they got to know them better. If so then that would suggest that women have qualities that are more often attributed to stereotypes of men.

My intuition has always been that the following lyrics could be sung as easily by women as by the men (Rogers and Hammerstien*) who wrote them for the Anna character in The King and I:

Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say

Haven’t you noticed
Suddenly I’m bright and breezy?
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I’m learning about you
Day by day.

Actually my intuition says that’s still true. Chime in if I’m wrong, though.

* Not actually being a huge fan of musicals I wasn't aware until I Googled it that the song was from The King and I or that it was sung by women and not as a duet between a man and woman. (I'd guessed it was instead from West Side Story.)


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Corrollary: Conservatives Who Don't Know the History of Marriage Have Very Bad Ideas About... Well... the History of Marriage

Since I'm still feeling really horrible I'm more likely to just repost other people's work.  Case in point: Matthew Yglesias catches another right-winger using anti-feminism to... what else... bash men.  I've just nicked the whole thing.

Kay Hymowitz in the Wall Street Journal:

Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This “pre-adulthood” has much to recommend it, especially for the college-educated. But it’s time to state what has become obvious to legions of frustrated young women: It doesn’t bring out the best in men.

Since I’m still in my twenties for a few more months, I thought I’d actually look up themedian age at first marriage for American males. The most recent year the data is reported for is 2007, when it was 27.7 which is indeed a few years older than it was “not so long ago” in 1960 when it was 22.8 years. But in 1920, it was 24.6 years. In 1890, it was 26.1, presumably because everyone was too busy watching Judd Apatow movies. Or maybe this number just bounces around over time and it’s always been the case that some people are sometimes frustrated with some members of the opposite sex.

Source: Center for American Progress

I'm not about to go get any references but I'm almost positive that were I to do so I'd quickly be able to document that from roughly the Elizabethan era through most of the Industrial Revolution age of first marriage for what we'd think of as "middle class" men was from their late 20s to as late as mid 30s!  First marriages for women was often well into their 20s.

Another very peculiar artifact of the conservative fantasy that there was anything "traditional" at all about post WWII marriage, when age of (first) marriage dropped as low as the high teens.

The alternative for Hymowitz and her ilk would be to acknowledge that age of (first) marriage was so low in the 1950s and 1960s were due to a combination of red-hot productivity gains resulting from capital expenditures from the New Deal, WWII, and collateral commerce from the Marshall Plan, the G.I. Bill home loan programs and FDIC and savings-and-loan-equivalent mortgage-facilitating programs, strong unions, incredible demand for jobs requiring high skills but low education, high taxes balanced by low deficits, consumption-promoting programs such as Social Security, Rural Electrification (without which America's largely-rural population couldn't use new mass-produced refrigerators or washing machines), U.S. Highway and Interstate construction (which similarly made auto consumption more feasable,) G.I. Bill education grants that financed waves of new productivity and innovation, etc.  Before that (going back, again, to the Elizabethan era) both men and women typically had to work into the 20s to build their "nest eggs" to settle down with.

Far easier for Hymowitz to bash men and blame feminism for it than to acknowledge just how successful government intervention was in introducing the very transitory anomaly of 50's-style "traditional families."


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Where Actual Animal Nature Collides With Metaphors of Animal Nature

Comic from Three Panel Soul. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
"On Wild Animals" comic from Three Panel Soul. Click for full-size version on the original site.

It's kind of awesome how we mix stuff up this way.  Grizzly bears spend about 80% of their lives eating grass and berries.  Gorillas are actually "hung" like human 4-year-olds.  Preying mantises are less likely to devour their mates when they're not kept artificially hungry.  Even "dominant" and "rogue" wolves are very reluctant to transgress social norms.

Goodness only knows what human metaphors animals would use.

Via tweet from frequent commenter nekobawt.


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