g-spot

About that "Squirting" Thing: What If Women Expected Their Partners to Come in Quarts Like They Do in Porn?

Wed, 2011-04-20 21:03

A reader looking for advice at Em & Lo asked

Dear Em & Lo,

So last night my wife experienced one of her orgasms from G-spot stimulation and, as is usual for her, did not ejaculate. In fact, there is never really a detectable increase in her lubrication during orgasm. I was wondering if this means that she is the type of woman who is not a “squirter”? She has asked me several times why she has never “squirted.” Is my wife capable of ‘squirting’? We’ve used fingers, penis, vibe, and even drinking 2 liters of ‘Squirt’ soda to stimulate her G-spot… Any suggestions?

–Squirtless

Source: Em & Lo

Their answer was, of as usual, just great. But here's my reaction anyway.

We'll leave aside the twin questions a) why is he calling himself "squirtless" and b) what makes her think he's any more likely to have answers about her orgasms than she would? Oh, and possibly c) why does he make it it sound like he's got more judgment about it than she does? We'll leave that aside because it's actually a really common question even for more experienced women and more egalitarian men. So...

The last thing on earth I’d ever want to leave a partner feeling was that they were missing something just because they didn’t squirt.

Because while I’m not the worlds greatest expert on g-spot orgasms I do know that the two partners who squirted were never as floored afterwards as some of the other partners who never did.

Plus with the ones who didn’t squirt you don’t have to get up and change the sheets, but that’s a different matter. (If you’re prepared, or else just really casual, then wet sheets aren’t that big a deal.)

But seriously, what if "squirtless" had a partner who expected him to be able to ejaculate all over her neck, chest, belly, and toes the way some men (seem to) do in porn? He's probably say, correctly, “but quantity isn’t really a very useful measure of how much I enjoy an orgasm.”

Well, it’s almost certainly the same for her. (Plus, if he did come that much then, again, he'd have to get up and change the sheets for that too.)

Update: Doesn't it already sound like they are, or at least she is, having really, really good orgasms already?  And doesn't it sound like they've sort of talked themselves into believing there's something else that's so much better that they've talked themselves (or at least talked her) into not really enjoying the ones she is having very much at all?  So add to the list of caveats, above, d) while it would actually be pretty awful if we didn't enjoy our partner's orgasms, our partners orgasms are not performances undertaken for our enjoyment.

Why Women's G-Spots Are Considered More Mysterious than Men's B-Spots (Never Heard of B-Spots? I Rest My Case.)

Sun, 2010-08-15 12:37

Via the authors of the NCBI ROFL Discover Blog, medical researchers used ultrasound to record the anatomy of penis-in-vagina intercourse. Their shocking conclusion?

We focused on the size of the clitoral bodies before and after coitus. Results. The coronal section demonstrated that the penis inflated the vagina and stretched the root of the clitoris that has consequently a very close relationship with the anterior vaginal wall. This could explain the pleasurable sensitivity of this anterior vaginal area called the G-spot. Conclusions. The clitoris and vagina must be seen as an anatomical and functional unit being activated by vaginal penetration during intercourse.”

Read the quote in context here.

It’s basically confirmation that the nominal controversy over the “g-spot” is more semantic than anatomical: there’s a spot. It might or might not be “the Gräfenberg Spot.” Or instead it could turn out to be something else in the same location that responds to stimulation in the same way that we just call the G-spot.

This might sound a bit like oversharing (although I think I haven’t been sharing enough lately) but it occurs to me that a big part of the controversy is that it’s considered a problem that 100% of women don’t respond to stimulation in the area. Except that a) it’s not considered a problem that some women don’t respond, or don’t respond “correctly” to stimulation of any number of other locations including direct contact with the external clitoral body. And also that b) it’s not considered a problem (in fact it doesn’t appear to be considered at all that different men respond best to stimulation of different parts of their genitals too.

The oversharing bit would be that I’m really only orgasmically sensitive in one spot on my penis. It’s about the size of a nickel about a quarter of the way down from the top. Other men are evidently sensitive in other areas. I know this because until they had the time to figure out how I worked other partners have tended to concentrate their attention on other spots — ones that worked for their own previous partners. The glans itself for some. The corona for others. The frenulum seems to be very popular. And one partner, who hadn’t had a lot of partners, was completely baffled when I asked her why she concentrated so much at the very base of my penis. Turns out that had been a holy-grail spot for her two previous partners.

Let’s call that last spot the male “B-Spot.” And do a bunch of MRIs, and electromyography, and write dozens of books, hundreds of articles, and thousands of blog posts and tweets about whether it does or doesn’t exist. Let’s spend a lot of energy demonstrating that anatomically there’s no special gland, duct, specialized tissue, or ganglia at that location that could possibly account for reports that it might in fact respond well to stimulation in some men. We can call the glans area the male “g-spot,” the corona the “c-spot,” the frenulum the “f-spot,” and my spot “the other f-spot” just to make it all sound more obfuscating. Oh, and for extra credit let’s spend a little time castigating men for either claiming they prefer stimulation in some of those spots. Or for instead claiming they don’t. I know, we’ll call them “immature,” or “repressed,” or “not in touch with their bodies,” or even thralls of penetrative ideology” if they can’t find theirs. Then let’s sell a bunch of books and videos demonstrating how men can “find” theirs. And finally we’ll create a whole ‘nother culture around saying how if they ever could find them they’d have mind-blowing orgasms instead of the perfectly lovely orgasms they already have.

Oh wait, no, for men it’s just one spot, “the penis,” and everybody knows all about that. Never mind that men’s “g-spot” is about the same number of centimeters distant from their “b-spots” as clitorises are from women’s “g-spots.” And if it doesn’t work the same way then they’re probably latent homosexuals if they prefer female partners, or maybe latently hetero if they prefer men.

Or we could just acknowledge that genitals, men’s and womens, are delightfully diverse puzzles for which there’s usually no “right” answer.

That’s how I like to read research like the one cited as “ROFL” whacky. And while I strongly agree with Sungold that we might want to keep electromyography (ouch!) to a minimum, I’d still like to see more rather than less interest in the ways all our different spots work.

What We Think We Know About Men's Sexuality, Plus "Proof" Men Have No Prostates

Wed, 2010-01-06 12:53

Not sure you can get there without registering, but after my server logs told me a poster on sex-fetish forum site Fetlife.com had linked to my post about the g-spot researcher’s other theories about women’s orgasms I found a startlingly common but I think pretty backwards assertion by another poster who said

It’s a fact that the study of female sexuality lags decades (or perhaps centuries) behind that of male sexuality so we shouldn’t be surprised that stuff like this continues to surface…

You might have to register to see it but she said here.

Instead I think we know almost exactly nothing about male sexuality except, pretty much…

  1. men will put their penises in anything vaguely orifice-like
  2. men have orgasms effortlessly if they put their penis in anything vaguely orifice-like
  3. the two items above are obviously and universally true of every man
  4. unless there’s something wrong with the man

This would be yet another consequence of assuming men are the “norm” against which everyone else is “other.” (Update: A consequence which would more tolerable if items 1-4 were even superficially correct. See also Holly.)

In fact what we don’t know about men’s sexuality would fill bookstores. Assuming anyone was a) curious and also b) unintimidated by item #4, above.

Penises aren’t uniformly sensitive, for instance. Nor, as I’m pretty sure anyone with more than a couple of male partners could tell you, is each man’s penis sensitive in the same spot. If we were curious, in fact, I’m pretty sure we could map homologous “spots” on men, from the glans (“obvious!” except when it’s not) to the frenulum to various spots in the corpus spongeousum between the corpus cavernosa to the base to the perineum to the prostate.

But we’re not. So we don’t.

Quick question for Dr. Spector: What would you get if screened out gay and bisexual men who’s “digital manipulation” might bias the results, then asked 1500 paired-twin men “do you believe you have a so-called prostate gland, a walnut-sized area on the front wall of your rectum that is sensitive to deep pressure?”

Quick answer: Proof that there’s no such thing as a prostate gland.

Just sayin’

G-Spot Debunkers Previously "Proved" Women Who Have Easy Orgasms are Evolutionarily Unfit

Tue, 2010-01-05 11:00

Following up on my previous post about the latest g-spot debunking researcher.

I mentioned earlier that in the early 20th Century Freudians accused women who responded to external clitoral stimulation of being immature, repressed, and otherwise sexually incomplete. Then in the 1970s, after Masters & Johnson, David Rubin, etc., women who responded to vaginal stimulation rather than “correct” external-clitoral stimulation were thought to be... immature, repressed, sexually incomplete, and/or in thrall to patriarchal notions about intercourse. (In her big report Shere Hite sounded particularly exasperated about women who claimed to enjoy penetration.)

Of course the whole debate — Freudian, sex “revolutionary,” and feminist alike— was still patriarchal to the core. In fact migrating genital stimulation to the external clitoris completed the dominant notion that women’s internal genitals were an utterly passive emptiness of interest only to penises going into and babies coming out of, end of story.

This latest research about the non-existence of the g-spot seems to be part of that same tradition by the way. Via Debbie Notkin at Body Impolitic and Dr. Petra Boynton it turns out that back in 2005 the same researchers who are now debunking the g-spot published another twins-based study on women’s orgasms. As an article in The Guardian put it

Tim Spector of St Thomas’s hospital in London, who led the research, said: “The theory is that the orgasm is an evolutionary way of seeing if men can prove themselves to be likely good providers or dependable, patient and caring enough to look after the kids.”

It gets better though

The findings suggest the failure of some women to orgasm regularly is not a dysfunction, but a sophisticated mate-selection strategy that evolved during prehistoric times.

...

Women who orgasm very easily may be more likely to be satisfied with poor quality men.

“Perhaps women who had orgasms too easily weren’t very good selectors,” Professor Spector said.

He said it, with his bare face hanging out, here.

Never mind that these same researchers consciously discarded women who's "common use of digital stimulation ... may bias the results." Never mind that they excluded women who had never had intercourse. Never mind that they asked somewhat... leading questions like "Do you believe you have a so called G spot, a small areas the size of a 20p coin on the front wall of your vagina that is sensitive to deep pressure?" They used twins! They're evolutionary psychologists! It must be true!

Keeping women’s genitals passive responders to men’s prowess instead of, say, active, sophisticated, and highly-organized systems of organs in active, sophisticated, and highly-organized autonomous human beings is in keeping with the same researcher’s g-spot conclusions as well.

No-sex class much?

Note to G-Spot Debunkers: It Would Pay to Read the Original Book First Guys

Mon, 2010-01-04 23:13

Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon has a very cool and fairly generous analysis of the, um, controversy over the existence, or lack thereof, of the “g-spot.” (Controversial not least because of some… interesting theories coming out of the same research shop. Via Debbie at Body Impolitic their theory was that women are supposed to have an evolutionary hard time having orgasms in order to test men’s prowess. Seriously. But I digress….)

Anyway, as part of her discussion Amanda correctly, I think, says

It’s interesting to consider if the G spot only occurs in some women, which would explain the huge gap between experiences without further shaming of women who don’t have G spot orgasms.

This is just a snippet, almost an aside. Read the rest of her post here.

For the record that’s what the original authors thought as well.

I’ve mentioned this before but I remember from Beverly Whipple, Ladas, Perry, and company’s original The G Spot: And Other Discoveries about Human Sexuality that the introduction goes specifically into that exact issue that not all women can expect to have them, and that if not they specifically shouldn’t worry about it.

In fact the book as a whole said more about handling expectation and shame than about any kind of tissue stimulation at all.

The introduction mentions specifically that women who read Freud in the 1940s and 1950s were expected to feel guilty for having orgasms from clitoral stimulation, and then later, after reading Masters & Johnson they were expected to feel guilty for having orgasms from vaginal stimulation. The authors thought that was… unfortunate.

Later there’s a whole chapter devoted to the principle that “the best is the enemy of the good,” by which they meant specifically that if people tried to obsess over having or (worse, I think) giving g-spot orgasms they were likely to wind up disappointed with their ordinary old eye-rolling, breathtaking, toe-curling ones. And, sure enough… But be darned if anyone should blame the original authors for that.

Oh, and another thing, the same book also introduced the idea of prostate stimulation in men. Gee, wonder why that idea wasn’t greeted with such widespread enthusiasm? And gee, wonder why men who can’t have them aren’t judged as losers the way women who don’t do the g-spot thing are. And finally, gee, wonder why no researchers are doing twins studies to try and debunk prostate sensitivity. But again I digress.

G-spots and prostates notwithstanding, another big contribution the book made was to introduce the importance of the pubococcygeus (a.k.a “PC muscle”) for both men and women’s genital health and sexual enjoyment. The authors were pretty adamant that Kegels and other pc muscle exercises were pretty important both for increasing the strength of orgasms (of any kind but especially g-spot ones) but also for reducing incontinence and prolapsed uteruses. Their proposed exercises for women are well known but less well-known are the ones for men which involve draping rolled-up towels and making them, um, bob.

Hmm. The book’s not actually that much about the actual g-spot. It was actually pretty radical (and thus most everything but the squirting parts have largely been ignored.) I highly recommend it. It used to be a huge best seller and I’m guessing you can still find copies in used-paperback bookstores. I imagine, could those researchers in the U.K. had they been interested. Just saying.

Bottom line, though, is that if you or your partner has one then great, cool. As long as you’re enjoying yourself and not stressing about it don’t worry about what researcher say. And of you or your partner doesn’t have one then, well, that’s great too. As long as you’re enjoying yourself and not stressing about it don’t worry what researchers say.

Gee, took long enough

Tue, 2007-10-30 17:40

“Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America.” – James Joyce

1982: Beverly Whipple, John D. Perry, Alice Khan Ladas publish The G Spot: And Other Discoveries about Human Sexuality, which sells 1,000,000 copies.

1950: Ernst Graffenberg, an ophthalmologist turned gynecologist publishes The Role of Urethra in Female Orgasm.

1905: Sigmund Freud theorizes that “mature” women have “vaginal” orgasms that are distinct from “less mature” clitoral ones.

The 1500’s: Ambrose Paré advises other physicians in the treatment of “female hysteria”

Let the mydwife annoint her fingers with oleum nardinum or moschetalinum, or of cloves, or else of spike mixed with musk, ambergreese, civit and other sweet powders, and with these let her rub or tickle the top of the neck of the wombe wish toucheth the inner orifice.

The Technology of Orgasm: “Hysteria,” the Vibrator, and Women’s Sexual Satisfaction (Johns Hopkins Studies in the History of Technology)

For the record, Dr. Paré described the symptoms of “hysteria,” which at the time was more commonly, if not exactly charmingly, referred to as “suffocation of the uterus” (due to the panting and shortness of breath associated with the “curative” paroxysms produced by the above listed treatment) as

Those who are free’d of the fit of the suffocation of the womb either by nature or by art, in a short time their color commeth in to their faces by little and little, and the whole beginneth to wax strong, and th eteeth, that were set, and closed fast together, begin (the jaws being loosened) to open and unclose again, and lastly som moisture floweth from the secret parts with a certain tickling pleasure; but in some women, as in those especially in whom the neck of the womb is tickled with the Midwive’s finger, in stead of that moisture com’s thick and gross seed [note: medevalists believed that both men and women produced semen or “seed” for procreation —fl], which moisture or seed when it is fallen, the womb being before as it were rageing, is restored unto its own proper nature and place, and by little and little all symptoms vanish away.

It’s kind of embarrassing to see how over and over men (and it was obvously mostly men till, say, Beverly Whipple and Alice Ladas) managed to lose so much information about their (heterosexual) partners when, really, they don’t seem to have had all that much to begin with. And all in the maintenance of what, exactly?

[Note: For the record, Whipple, Ladas, and Perry, followers of Freud disciple Wilhelm Reich, undertook their investigation of the g-spot because they wondered how Freud could have been so wrong about vaginal orgasms in the face of Master’s and Johnson’s equally unilateral “discovery” of the clitoris. —fl]

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