incest

Via Carlin Ross -- More States Allow Cousins to Marry than Same Sex Couples

Mon, 2011-09-05 09:34

Image via Carlin Ross. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Image via Carlin Ross.

Carlin Ross says

Easier to marry your cousin than your same-sex partner... says alot about our country

Source: Carlin Ross's blog

Yikes! Hadn't ever looked at it that way before! But yikes!

Indiana State Rep. and Rape/Incest Excemption Opponent Eric Turner: Protecting Uncle Daddy's Right to be a Grandpa Too

Fri, 2011-04-01 07:26

Image from Talking Points Memo. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Photo via TPM
Kaili Joy Gray of Daily Kos says

Thank god someone finally has the courage to stand up to the rape and incest cheats who, for too long, have been defrauding the system with their bogus allegations just to cash in on all the fabulous perks and benefits that come with being impregnated by a rapist.

Source: Daily Kos

You probably don't even need to guess, but follow the link if you're not sure. In a way it doesn't matter which state they try it in first, they'll try something worse in another state next week.

If there was ever any doubt that the current rash (and I do mean rash in numerous senses of the word) of various state's abortion restrictions is purely about fear and hatred of women and not even slightly about protecting the unborn, Matthew Yglesias reminds us

Meanwhile, from Andrea Nill I learn that at least five babies have died in Nebraska since they started denying prenatal care to undocumented mothers. Life, after all, begins at conception, ends at birth, and doesn’t count if you’re from Mexico.

Source: Center for American Progress

No wonder I've been feeling depressed lately.

Questions From the Mouths of Babes: Do Evolutionary Psychologists Do Any Psychology

Wed, 2010-01-06 19:54

Summary: Having established that many evolutionary psychologists have studied no biology since high-school we turn to the question do evolutionary psychologists study psychology? Plus, challenging an accusation that criticism of ev-psych comes from “creationists.”

Via a tip from Twitter, reporter Kyle Wind of the Hudson Valley Daily Freeman says

NEW PALTZ — A SUNY New Paltz psychology professor attributes the evolutionary importance of maintaining close social bonds to his study’s finding that people are more upset by the idea of a spouse or significant other cheating with a friend or relative than with a stranger.

To conduct the study, published in the journal Evolutionary Psychology in late November, researchers surveyed two groups of college students to explore infidelity in heterosexual relationships through the “identity of the interloper,” said Professor Glenn Geher, one of the academics behind the study and the chairman of SUNY New Paltz’s Psychology Department.

...

From a “strict evolutionist perspective,” Geher said, “one might predict that we’d be more OK with our partner cheating with, for instance, our brother, who shares 50 percent of my genetic combination, but that’s definitely not what happens.”

...

Researchers actually quantified the level of distress based on the identity of the person with whom participants’ partners would theoretically have sexual encounters by assigning rankings.

In the first sample, the group’s 194 women rated the thought of a partner cheating with their mothers as most upsetting, followed by, in order, daughters, sisters, friends, aunts, former lovers, nieces, cousins, co-workers, and strangers at the bottom of the list.

Similarly, the 65 men rated distress levels over the idea of their significant others’ sexual infidelity with their fathers at the top of the list followed by brothers, sons, friends, uncles, former lovers, cousins, co-workers, nephews, and strangers, according to the study.

Read the quote in context here.

I’m going to stop right there, having also left out a bunch of other… fascinating declarations about what Glen Geher says must be true about evolved behavior because one commenter, j2bryson, asked a really important question about the significance of that ordering.

“I wonder if this tells us anything about indentification with one’s partner, as these are the same people one shouldn’t one’s self have sex with.”

As usual I don’t have unpaid access to academic journals so I’m just going to assume that Geher meticulously documents how his experiment distinguishes ordinary social and psychological reactions to the prospect of near-incestuous relationships from evolutionarily-directed ones.

For instance while determining that his late-adolescent (i.e. university student) research subjects weren’t thrilled with the idea of a partner having sex with mom or dad did he he carefully control for differences in the same student’s reaction to the prospect of mom and dad having sex with each other? Because, dude, most young people cover their ears and go “la la la” about that.

For instance did he spend time discussing the peculiarly popular genre of written and photo porn with labels like “hot wife” and “loving wives” seem to have on middle-aged men? Did he assay the relative popularity of these stories based on the affinities of the approved-of interlopers who, as I recall, very often involve male relatives, best friends, and employers or employees?

And of course did he do any screening to answer j2bryson elementary question about people’s well-documented aversion to provide controversial answers to controversial questions?*

In other words while hopping all over the place trying to demonstrate evolutionary psychology did he do any psychology psychology?

Until proved otherwise I’ll assume, of course, that the answer is yes on all counts and that Geher’s confident that despite his small and narrow sample size he’s adequately filtered out all possible noise from his data such that the only possible explanation for his results involve inherited behavior selected for over many thousands of generations and preserved for many thousands more.

Ok, I’m not. I’m pretty sure he did none of those things. But if I find out he did all that, and that his findings are indeed incontrovertible, then you’ll see the retraction right here.

—-

What puzzles me is why evolutionary psychologists rarely investigate the almost certainly selected for tendency in humans, especially young adults, to gravitate towards group conformity that j2bryson. It’s easily reproduced (in fact it’s difficult to avoid.) It’s almost certainly less complex demonstrating a general human behavior than the kind of highly-contingent sexually dimorphic behavior. Especially since the gendered nature of that behavior often dissolves or even reverses as individuals age. But no, despite complexities that make their tasks almost exponentially more difficult it’s all sex or nothing at all with these guys.

I mention this in part to counter a conceit, forwarded by a number of Evolutionary Psychologists including Prof. Gher (pdf) that the only alternative to their specific variety of evolutionary psychology_ is either religious fundamentalism or…

...a new kind of creationist (Ehrenreich & McIntosh, 1997), so to speak, rooted in secular intellectualism. These so-called new creationists are, in fact, very different from fundamentalist Christians in their ideological foundation. The new creationists may be conceptualized as academics and scholars who study varied aspects of human affairs from the perspective of the Standard Social Science Model (SSSM; Pinker, 2002), a model for understanding human behavior which is largely premised on the notion of the blank slate.

First of all, sorry, whatever else one might call Barbara Ehrenreich she’s got enough history of science credentials to deserve better epithets. Second of all, as I think I demonstrate pretty consistently including in this post above, one can be entirely sympathetic to the notion of natural selection on behavior… while still being completely impatient with sloppy methodology, conclusion overreach, and unbelievably consistent status-quo-oriented selection bias in subject matter in the face of almost no basic research. That professors and department heads must resort to accusations of secular “creationism” in order to fend of criticism from other scientists speaks volumes.

Failure to Excommunicate

Tue, 2009-03-10 17:24

Pam Spaulding of Pandagon passes along a Vatican statement that incestuous rapist pedophiles who impregnate their nine-year-old daughters are just fine by them.

He also said the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the church. Although the man allegedly committed “a heinous crime … the abortion – the elimination of an innocent life – was more serious”.

Read the quote in context here.

I… think they made a mistake. Politically stupid? Obviously. Morally unclean? Undoubtedly. Legally suspect? Sure. But even doctrinally it’s completely unclear to me how that’s supposed to work. It’s certainly not the way I’d want to operate an enterprise where one of the primary missions of both clergy and laity involves being trusted alone with minor children.

Why, Even If Vice Is Now Nice, Incest is Still Not Best

Mon, 2008-12-08 16:52

Lynn Gazis-Sax of Noli Irritare Leones, who’s been on a bit of a roll examining Medieval and earlier theological attitudes towards homosexuality, brings up as an aside early theological attitudes about incest.

The live journal Thinking Out Loud reviews gay Catholic academic Mark Jordan’s The Invention of Sodomy in Christian Theology. It’s an interesting survey of medieval reasoning about sex, which sometimes differs from modern reasoning in non-obvious ways.

arguing that a priest who has sex with someone he is hearing confessions from is a form of incest—the priest being spiritual father—is much more about very medieval concerns about incest, defined extremely broadly

(I note, here, that incest has been defined to include a transgression that we’d now describe as professional sexual exploitation.)

The main body of her post, titled “Are we all sodomites now?” is pretty interesting too. Read the whole thing here.

This is actually a pretty cool point. Various apologists for incest point out, not at all incorrectly, that most of the horror stories about offspring with hemophilia and other recessive-gene diseases are actually fairly weak. (Tending as they do towards one widely-distributed and widely known royal family and large numbers of conveniently “othered” sub-groups like “gee-we-want-the-coal-under-their-property hillbillies.) And a heck of a lot of pre-metropolitan social organizations consist of very isolated groups where marriage as close as cousins was pretty inevitable**. And besides now there’s birth control, right?

Fine. Points taken. But!

As Lynn hints, if theologians considered sex between priest and parishioner incest then inbreeding is not what the prohibition was all about in the first place. Instead it was about improper abuse of, and I’m sure a little further research would support, improper concentration of power.

Slight digression: Recall, as various historians of relationships have noted (my go-to reference being Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage by Stephanie Coontz), the real tradition of “traditional marriage” wasn’t romance, or even individual preference, but economic arrangements between (politically significant) families. And while I can’t document this I’m guessing that a little research would show that political and economic considerations rather than actual consanguinity was behind, say, the Church’s otherwise incomprehensible decisions to prohibit an individual’s marriage to a 4th cousin in favor of… a marriage to a 3rd cousin.

It also makes significant the biologically ridiculous prohibitions on marriages between cousins in law who (especially if everyone’s keeping track) are almost by-definition not related either by blood or genetics.

I’m not given to approving the policies of ecclesiastical lawyers but in this case I think they got it right, because the real but relatively*** minor problems of possible inbreeding really aren’t as significant as the equally real but considerably bigger problems of power imbalances in such relationships.

For this reason all the arguments about the biological irrelevance of incest, no matter how sophisticated, fall flat: what’s usually objectionable about incest isn’t about inherited genes, it’s about inherent power****.

[And we’re not just talking about the middle ages here. A friend I used to work with moved out of her 20th-Century northern Minnesota town, she said, because she and everyone else in her town knew by third grade who she was going to have to marry. In a long-established, very isolated town of less than three hundred the choices were very limited unless you wanted to a) marry a first or second cousin or b) marry someone else, thus forcing their designated partner to marry a first or second cousin. Oh, or c) move away. She said she knew “her” forced pick was a big doodie-head and so before age 8 she had resigned herself to option C. —fl]

[*** No pun intended. —fl]

[****
This would be true, by the way, whether or not that was the literal liturgical reasoning behind the policies Lynn touched on in the quoted piece. Although, based on identification of incest between priest and parishioner as strongly overlapping what we’d call sexual harassment or exploitation of position, I’m pretty sure that really was the original line of thought. —fl]

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