Holly of The Pervocracy says
I so often hear sex described in terms of genitals. Sex is all about penis and/or vagina, and everything else is trappings. (Especially for men, because lol men only want warm holes lol.) This is, to me, a bit like saying running is something you do with your feet. Feet are important for running, yes, but if you think your arms and hips and lungs and heart just sit there…
I like this paragraph a lot. Progressive sex educators spend a reasonable amount of time pointing out that there’s more to sex than penis-in-vagina intercourse. And that’s perfectly true. What I like about Holly’s perspective is that penis in vagina intercourse isn’t just about penises and vaginas either.
Although I’m more partial to quoting irrelevant bits of Gilbert and Sullivan this Monty Python dinosaur seems appropriate to my recent spate of ejaculation-during-PIV-intercourse posts.
Customer A:
Morning,Waitress:
Morning.Customer A:
What have you got?Waitress:
Well, there’s
Egg and spam
Egg, bacon and spam
Egg, bacon, sausage and spam
Spam, bacon, sausage and spam
Spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam
Spam, sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam tomato and spam
Spam, spam, spam, egg and spam
Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.Or Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a mornay sauce served in a provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and spam.
Customer B:
Have you got anything without spam?Waitress:
Well, the spam, eggs, sausage and spam
That’s not got much spam in it...
Customer A:
Why can’t she have eggs, bacon, spam and sausage?Customer B:
That’s got spam in it!Customer A:
Hasn’t got much spam in it as spam, eggs, sausage and spam has it?Customer B:
Could you do me eggs, bacon, spam and sausage without the spam, then?Waitress:
Yeeeeeccccch!!Customer B:
What do you mean ‘yeeeccchhh?’...
It’s not that there’s anything wrong with spam.
Seriously, there’s nothing wrong with spam! It’s basically just pork sausage steamed with juniper berries, and made fresh instead of canned, and partnered with the right dishes and libations, it’s marvelous.
So it’s not that there’s anything wrong with spam, it’s just that assuming every meal has to have spam in it, trying to work “different” approaches that… still end up with spam in it… that it doesn’t even count as eating if it doesn’t have spam in it… sounds, um, familiar. :-)
A little earlier today I mentioned a post by Britni Danielle expressing how she’s keen on most things about hetero sex, except…
I absolutely love when a man comes on my tits or stomach. I adore being covered in come. I also love when a man comes in my mouth. I think it’s totally hot. I don’t necessarily love having someone come on my face, but if it’s someone I’m dating and he really wants to, I’ll let him. So where do I HATE when a guy comes? Inside me (without a condom).
I think it’s absolutely repulsive. I think it’s messy. I hate that it drips out for the next hour, whether it’s onto the bed or into your underwear and you have to sit in it all day.
She continues…
But honestly? I think that it may be partially related to my complete aversion to having children. I think that I associate someone coming inside with procreation or babies or pregnancy or something. ... Now of course I know that there are sperm in precum and blah blah blah, and I’m on the pill which is 99.9% effective and blah blah blah, but I still hate the thought of someone coming inside me. Even if it’s someone that I’m really emotionally connected to and intimate with.
When you add it all up it does seem like — however nice PIV/ejaculation might be — that there’s an almost… disorderly emphasis put on that one particular activity.
I can think of a couple of obvious reasons why. The most circular being that it’s the most “natural” form of sex. Or, its sociobiology/evolutionary-psychology form, it’s the most “genetically wired.” But I can also think of a couple of other ones: a thousands-of-years-old, intense legal and doctrinal fascination with restricting sex “except for procreation.” The equally ancient tradition of male “semen conservation“ for health, vitality, and old-age would be another. (I’ve mentioned elsewhere that in the peak of Victorian-era hysteria it was believed in Europe, England and the United States that “as much as ten ejaculations a year” could be fatal to a healthy adult male!) The old Monty Python song “Every Sperm is Sacred,” in other words, had (and in many cultures still has) an entirely secular side as well.
One nice side effect of the Protestant Reformation in the West was an overturn of the idea of sex only for procreation. And men have demonstrated, um, repeatedly that semen “conservation” has few if any benefits at all. Add the substantial risks of unwanted, unplanned pregnancy, the increased risk of transmission of some STIs, the inconvenience and mess born mostly by the recipient and the point that there are actually more pleasurable ways for both men and women to have orgasms together and… it’s worth, well, reconsidering our obsession with the practice.
Except for procreation, of course. :-)
Update: For the record, since my enthusiasm might be mistaken for stridency, after complaining about the notion that we should always limit “normal” sex to PIV intercourse to ejaculation I’m not turning around and saying we should never do so. I am, however, questioning its centrality and the assumption — especially in the face of quite a bit of contrary evidence — that it’s the easiest, most natural or (according to DSM proposals) least “abnormal,” or best thing people can decide to do together.
I’m also aware that a lot of the alternatives sound a whole lot like the dismal, almost universally self-induced “money shots” of pornography. To that I’ll just say that the “money shot” of porn is to male orgasm what the rest of porn is to real adult sex: highly stylized activities designed almost exactly to be more exciting to watch than to do in real life.
So I realize I’ve done a couple of posts in the last week that were all related to a stealth brain-changing post from Britni Danielle of Oh My God, That Britni’s Shameless who said
I absolutely love when a man comes on my tits or stomach. I adore being covered in come. I also love when a man comes in my mouth. I think it’s totally hot. I don’t necessarily love having someone come on my face, but if it’s someone I’m dating and he really wants to, I’ll let him. So where do I HATE when a guy comes? Inside me (without a condom).
My post about Shere Hite and her view that depictions of men in porn are impoverished compared even to, for instance, their sexual expression while they’re masturbating, the one linking to Guttmacher’s Rachel K Jones assessing withdrawal as contraception, one about heteronormative assumptions embodied in proposed revisions to the DSM, and even the one from Em & Lo questioning why stains from women’s menstrual blood are more problematic than “wet spot” semen stains after intercourse were each influenced by Britni’s post questioning the utility and/or desirability not of PIV intercourse but PIV intercourse culminating in male ejaculation as the default/desirable/fallback/ultimate sex act.
Many of the above posts have sparked cool conversations in comments. Other comments have (not-unreasonably, considering) questioned my judgment for being, for instance, so sanguine about “withdrawal.” There’s a longer answer, which would be the possibly radical idea that intercourse itself should be employed as “foreplay,” but the shorter answers lead back to Britni’s post.
Kink In Exile tackles head on the masturbation question that’s been percolating around the intertubes (and, obviously, in real life) recently
Someone did in fact ask why it might be hard for some people to orgasm with a partner if most of their orgasms have been through masturbation. I should first clarify that question to say “...if they can masturbate to orgasm successfully.”
...
The way people masturbate is often different from the mechanics of partnered sex. You may have learned to masturbate in an environment of secrecy and so you do it quickly, but find that partnered sex doesn’t allow you to reach that tempo. Or maybe you find an angle from which to approach your own genitals that feels soo good, but is harder to do with partnered sex. Your body gets used to the way you’ve been getting it off and expects that kind of contact; you change things up, don’t go fast enough, or don’t hit the right spots and suddenly it doesn’t work. Keep in mind also that many women can’t orgasm from vaginal penetration alone. So what do you do? Pay attention to how you masturbate, how your partnered sex looks and what physical differences exist there in. You can then try masturbating in a way that is more reflective of partnered sex or adding toys to partnered sex to make sure you’re hitting all the right spots.
There’s been a fair amount of conversation lately about the merits and demerits of masturbation as it relates to partnered sex. Given that masturbation is now effectively mainstream… as is conversation about sexual function and dysfunction… it’s a good time to talk about integrating solo and partner sex competency instead of imagining they are or should be separate.
At least for women back in the 1970s Shere Hite announced a strong correlation between learned masturbation position and, I think, orgasms during intercourse. (Darn it I’m probably going to have to look it up now.) Anyway, I distinctly remember her saying something about women who learned to masturbate in face-down or curled-up, upper-legs-crossed positions having difficulty and thinking yeah, that could be a problem. Although that was so long ago now that rear-entry intercourse was still largely considered a (demeaning, intimacy-avoiding) kink.
I had a little epiphany about sex and masturbation a couple of years ago, based on remarks from someone who said she never got off on intercourse and so she’d wait till her partner was asleep and then masturbate really surreptitiously. That experience was probably more unusual for men but since the advent of Prozac and other anti-depressants many men need a manual override to have orgasms during partner sex as well. There’s also, as you hint, a bit of a subculture among young men (at least) who might fantasize madly about whoever they’re oriented to… but in practice prefer the pace and, possibly, the auto-focus of masturbation. Oh, and finally, there are any number of people in kink who don’t care for or who even actively dislike, say, being beaten black and blue while it’s happening,_ who nevertheless get off hard in anticipation, on recollection, or both. So my epiphany was that we ought to get over the idea that we ought to reconsider not just the 70’s notion of “simultaneous orgasms” as ideal but the idea that intercourse is the “right” way to have orgasms at all.
The key, though — one that Hite missed or disregarded in her post — is that just because you develop one set of neural pathways to orgasm (through this position or that sensation) it doesn’t mean that’s the only way you’ll ever be able to do it. The obstacle, at least physically, is that it can take almost as long to grow the nerve pathways as it did to learn the first way. That’s fine if you mix it up while learning (something Betty Dodson talked about at least in her workshops.) It’s harder if you learn on the sly, if you’re uncomfortable or in denial about doing it at all, or if you get the idea (from porn, say, or bible-study classes) that it’s supposed to be this way instead of one’s own way. Or, preferably, ways.
None of this is to say orgasms during partnered sex is bad (in fact, as they say in the blogosphere, “heh.”) It’s just that as Kink In Exile points out, if you’re pretty good at having them by yourself, and if neither you nor your partner are brow-beaten and/or drum-beaten into being embarrassed that it might be so. And while I’d never make promises, who knows? Given that expectation stress and performance anxiety are major buzzkills, not worrying about it might even improve one’s odds with one’s partners.
See also:
If you’re an adult you can click here to see a probably-not-work-safe image.
Heather Corinna of Scarleteen provides a cool answer to a fairly troubling question from a young man who says he can no longer have intercourse with his partner because, he says, “I think about what I’m doing I feel like I’m stabbing her, or performing some kind of violent act on her.”** In the process she introduces what I think is a really, cool, really effective new euphemism for intercourse.
I think it might help if you made some adjustments to the way you think about intercourse and sex as a whole.
You use the word penetration, and talk about what you’re doing as stabbing or a kind of invasion. I also hear you saying that sex is something you are doing to your partner or on your partner rather than with your partner, or as something you are doing together. You frame sex — as many people do, unfortunately — as something you have, rather than as something people actively and jointly do or create.
Physically, metaphysically, and often emotionally and intellectually (sometimes even spiritually), sex is about people and their bodies interlocking in any number of ways, and about BOTH sets of genitals (or other parts), both bodies, both people being actively engaged, doing something together, not about one person doing something to, on or at the other.
I know that can be quite the mental headstand when there are so many ideas and presentations of intercourse as men forcing themselves into women, as vaginas or vulvas as somehow passive and only penises as active, and with heterosexual sex, as what men do to women, how men dominate women, but those ideas come more from political agendas and sexism — and reactions to inequality and those agendas — than they do from what is really happening with intercourse or other sex when any two (or more) people are sharing an experience that is mutually wanted, about mutual pleasure and real connectivity.
Interlocking, huh? It’s a really great alternative to the someone-has-to-be-topping-the-other ways of saying it like penetration or engulfing.
Another nice thing about “interlocking” is it’s not heteronormative. Nor, for that matter, is it particularly genital-specific. One can interlock any number of ways.
Mmm, interlocking. The word of the day is interlocking.
—-
See also:
- the rest of Heather’s post for the rest of her gentler-than-he-may-deserve attitude adjustment. – an earlier Scarleteen post about the Etiquette of Entry
[** Buying into the idea that penetration is by-definition injuring doesn’t seem that different from not caring whether or not it hurts. —fl]
Em and Low of Daily Bedpost
We’ve said it before, we’ll say it again: Sex is not intercourse. So stop using the two words interchangeably! When we as a society do this over and over again, it gets into the collective unconscious and starts limiting how we imagine the possibilities of pleasure, especially for women. A majority of women (that’s more women than not!) don’t climax from intercourse, so why rush to get there when you can spend time on more rewarding acts? But make no mistake: it’s not like you gentlemen out there can’t enjoy the variety that comes from taking intercourse off its pedestal—hey, if the destination is orgasm, how could anyone complain about the journey there? (Indeed, how could anyone NOT call that “sex”?!)
Nicely, if heteronormatively**, said. I always like to go a bit further, though, and stress that “sex,” however you define it, also doesn’t automatically end with male ejaculation.
This is not, by the way, to buy into the idea that orgasms are just “harder” for women, or that women “need” foreplay. After all the “fore” in foreplay is short for the same old “before intercourse to male ejaculation” Em, Lo, all other right-thinking people, and I are trying to nudge out of first place.
Instead, as Em and Lo hint, if the point of sex was male ejaculation then “Jizz in My Pants“ would be an instructional video and we could all go home. Since there’s almost universal agreement that “ejaculation” and “sex” aren’t the same thing it’s not that much of a stretch to “intercourse” and “sex” aren’t the same thing either…
At which point you get quite a bit more latitude for enjoyment not just for women but for men too!
One last point about the benefits of confusing intercourse with sex. Among heterosexuals it’s overwhelmingly the case that “intercourse” is something that men do to their partners. Not necessarily a bad to do things to each other during sex, and I’m given to understand that many (though not all) women enjoy it for precisely the reason of feeling “done to.”
Thing is, though, that if for the most part “foreplay” means “getting ready for sex” and “sex” means “intercourse” and “intercourse” means “what the man does to the woman” then… well, where, exactly is the room for women to enjoy actively things, for men to enjoy actively being *done to?”
I mean, if (heterosexuals) can’t break out of that then we’re stuck in what amounts to one party always hosting dinner (using food as my favorite analogy again) and the other party always being the guest. Not that there’s anything specifically about that either (one reason I think it’s a good analogy.) It’s just… limited in the sense that neither side gets the full range of experience. Just for example: of planning what to make or bring or do, of anticipating what the other has planned; of making requests or alternately of soliciting them.
And, seriously, with sharing sex, just as with sharing food, the experience of breaking out of the “host” and “guest” roles provides further understanding, further appreciation, greater inspiration, closer connections, and consequently much richer, much deeper, and much greater pleasure. For all concerned.
[** Focusing on heterosexuality is just fine in this context, because for reasons that… don’t actually have as much to do with sex as it does with notions of reproduction heterosexual sex seems to be a lot more consistently… even institutionally!... and unnecessarily dysfunctional. —fl]

Photo by Flickr user ginjil_lijing. Used under a Creative Commons license.
Bored Housewife says
It’s ok if you want to wake ME up for a fuck…
Sheepishly, hopefully.
He smiled up at me, as I sat here, watching the VP duh-bates on my computer.
I kissed the top of his smooth head and smiled back, giggling as I buried my face in his neck, giddy at the thought of it.
He just gave me a reason to go on Girl’s Night Out.
I was looking forward to it, but THAT, right there?
That was my golden egg, my reward, my treasure chest.
I don’t like to be woken up for anything, even sex, so he felt the need to point that out.
I’m oh so glad that he did.
Only a few short-term partners, and no long-term ones ever woke me up in the middle of the night for sex. The nicest, ever, was very early in my active sex life, before I’d gotten my vasectomy. It was summer, at a campsite with tons of other young adults. We’d met, hung out till late, made out passionately for hours, decided not to have sex because neither of us had birth control. Eventually we nodded off, still fully dressed, her sleeping bag under us, mine over, she nestling her head into my shoulder. A bit later I woke up with her on top of me, still in her t-shirt, undies on but jeans off, grinding against my nocturnal erection. Oddly I think it was her hair and hot, hot breath on my neck that woke me just… moments before she came and then, only a moment later I came too, into my jeans. And moments after that a few kisses and first she and then I were back asleep again.
I believe I’ve mentioned, repeatedly, how much I adore grinding like that while clothed. I’m pretty sure that was the first time, and certainly the first time a partner initiated it. It’s also the only time I ever came that way. But I digress.
What I really liked about Bored Housewife’s take on it is incorporating as a cap to her night out. Something like that happened one of the few other times someone woke me up for sex and it was also pretty great.
So anyway, yeah, middle of the night sex? I know it’s not for everyone but you could wake me up for that any time!

Photo by Flickr user photoprodigy. Used under a Creative Commons license.
Mary Roach, in a chapter titled (with signature drollery) The Princess** And Her Pea; the woman who moved her clitoris and other ruminations on intercourse orgasms, in Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex, draws a number of lines of research into women’s orgasmic “capacity,” both ancient and modern, with the entirely sensible point that orgasmic “capacity” for women (and, incidentally, for men) is almost entirely a function of who’s in control of what’s going on.
She sites Alfred Kinsey who agreed that clitoral location can make a difference, and so can position, but what matters most is “one’s level of engagement in the proceedings.” He suggested that it’s no so much that “women on top” positions are anatomically superior as “...it is the person on top who’s in control — making the movements and controlling their speed and depth and direction.”
She cites a modern researcher, Kim Wallen, who says “Women who routinely have orgasm in intercourse without explicit clitoral stimulation all say that it makes little difference what the guy does, as long as he doesn’t come too soon.” To which Roach adds “Meaning, it’s the women’s own movement that matters most.”
Wallen also says “In fact it is sometimes preferred that he just lie there and anchor the woman’s pelvis to him. The movie image of wild abandoned thrusting seems to have exactly the opposite of the intended effect on these women.”
Roach politely added that wild abandon can be nice. “Later, you know, toward the end.”
I mention this because heterosexual orgasmic “dysfunctions” are so linked to the “no-sex” class paradigm that insists women are disinclined to sex and, therefore, that women who are orgasmic during sex are atypical. Which means that men who (as befits us as members of the “sex” class) “manage” to get women in to bed with them and then “manage” to “give” them orgasms through androcentric, he-does-all-the-thrusting*** sex gets all kinds of “worthiness” points. If he bothers at all because, after all, women’s orgasms being atypical and all he might just feel like going for his orgasms figuring he can compensate her some other material-transfer-y sort of way. Which in turn fits perfectly into… the “no-sex” class paradigm wherein women would rather get stuff than have sex!
Oh, and can I just point out yet again how just the simple steps of turning intercourse over to her at least often enough for her to become accomplished, and then defining the end of sex as when she has her orgasm would force a rewrite of virtually**** every bit of mainstream heterosexual sex advice written in the last 400 (and maybe the last 4,000) years.
[** The princess in question was Marie Bonaparte, great-grand-niece of Napoleon, who, it turns out, helped pioneer inquiries into women’s orgasms during intercourse in the 1920s. —fl]
[*** And maybe in addition to all the thrusting he “masterfully” “warms her up” with cunnilingus or other forms of “foreplay.” And perhaps later “finishes her off,” multitasking with a finger or vibrator during intercourse. —fl]
[**** And just to be clear? I’m not saying “you’re not doing it right” to anybody, not at all at all. First because that would just be tossing the dysfunctionality ball back in. Second because everybody’s mileage varies. And finally because everybody’s mileage varies! Some people (maybe 15% of women and a nearly equal number of men) are simply not orgasmic no matter what they try. —fl]
Ok, so the other day in class, during a sex-ed lecture on vanilla intercourse positions our professor was discussing the merits and demerits of rear-entry intercourse.
Anyway, while I was thinking about some of what makes that general position enjoyable for me, someone in class sort of took the mental words out of my mouth by mentioning, with a great deal of enthusiasm, the variation where she’s lying on her stomach with her legs together and her partner straddling her with his legs outside hers, and how afterwards she just doesn’t want to move. I’ve noticed that with quite a few partners as well. I mean, people say it’s a men’s habit to fall asleep after sex but it seems that that particular position more than most others has been most likely to have that effect on, well, quite a few of my partners as well. (Apologies for the even more highly qualified, disjoint sentence than usual there, I’m not sure why but I feel shy talking about it. It’s not bragging because I’m pretty sure it’s the position and equally sure it’s not me. But… eh, anyway.)
Anyway, Linda Sue of Linda Sue’s Diary mentions the effect that position can have on men.
I’ve never known a man who wasn’t wildly attracted to the position. It started with my very first lover. Some of my long-lasting athletes — the ones who can even withstand my killer pelvis oscillation that makes lesser men lose it — these guys come quickly once they’re fucking me from behind.
Read the quote in context here.
Woozie, it certainly has that effect on me. I’m not sure everyone likes their partner to say “oooh stop, stop, please don’t move a muscle, I could come any second…” but that’s one position where without help from a partner I’m not just done but undone!
Once I’m able to adjust to that sort of sensual overload then I can be the majesticall studly stallion men think we’re supposed to be like… ok, ok, or pocket vole, mongoose, or leopard, or elephant — there are after all4,629 currently recognized species of mammals, nearly all of which have intercourse the same way, that are more glamorous than “doggies.” Including people. Which brings me back to my point that it was nice to hear someone else corroborate what I couldn’t otherwise have been sure wasn’t just my imagination.
I might add that maybe it’s not even that unusual that such a primal position might produce such, well, primal results. Which are different from the face-to-face positions that, by and large, I tend to prefer for intimacy’s sake (love that cheek to cheek feeling, hands around my neck or shoulders, knees locked behind the small of my back, mmm… where was I?)
Oh yeah, face to face. Which brings up a point about rear-entry where — speaking for myself at least — I differ with Linda Sue:
Of course a cock in that position always wants to go an inch higher. But that’s a story for another day.
Anyway, the point being that while yes, rear-entry vaginal intercourse is awfully darn nice at least for me and evidently a lot of other men men, and, also evidently, for a sizable number of women, most of the things that make it so nice don’t actually translate all that well to rear-entry anal intercourse. For one thing, at least initially you have to move a lot more slowly and carefully, something that’s not so much in keeping with the “animal” passion people talk about experiencing with rear-entry sex. For another, anal intercourse seems to work best with a lot of feedback and checking in, and face-to-face positions just seem to facilitate that. And finally, at least for the recipient anal intercourse can be a lot more emotionally, physically, and even erotically intense and that’s just one more reason face-to-face positions seem like a better choice.
Hmm… if you’re inclined to comment I guess there’s a bunch of stuff in this post to comment about: favorite positions, their effects on you and what if anything you need to do to cope, how you feel about partners on the quivering edge of orgasm, how you think different genders think about different positions, and then if you’re into anal activities what if any positions work for you.
Oh, one last thing about anal intercourse from my perspective: other than the obvious emotional/taboo/trust/be-very-conscious elements, and the need for even more lubrication… sensation-wise it’s not so different from vaginal intercourse. (Certainly not different enough in terms of strict sensation to account for the intense interest in certain lad magazines.)
[Note: Image behind the fold is just barely less work-safe than usual. And except for that only barely different from yesterday’s. —fl]