man-hating

"Angry" Feminists Echidne and Amanda Marcotte Stand Up For Men and Boys, Condemn Male-Bashing Anti-Feminist Caitlin Flannagan

Thu, 2012-01-19 22:30

Y'know, Echidne of the Snakes is a pretty four-square feminist. So check out how she "hates" men.

It's hard for me to address [anti-feminist Caitlin] Flanagan's theories as they are based on such an odd concept of what adolescent boys and adult men are all about. At the same time, she refuses to even look at the question what the culture might be teaching adolescent boys (this is very evident in the interview, the way she slithers away from any attempt to move the question to both boys and girls).

Source: Echidne of the Snakes

Good for her! She approvingly cites Amanda Marcotte's assessment of Flannagan's notions of what boys are all about (in the process doing an excellent job of capturing Flannagan's complete investment in the bogus Two Rules of Desire:

[F]or all the puffery about girlhood fascinations and diaries, Flanagan is really only making one argument, one we know really well, that goes like this:

  • Boys and men only care about sex, and mainly see girls and women as these tedious obstacles between them and pussy.
  • Girls and women only care about romance---the more princessy, the better---and see sex as this filthy ritual they have to perform in order to get it.
  • Therefore, women should use sex as a bartering chip to get men to pretend to like us.

Amanda said it here.

So what have we got going on here? Two died-in-the-wool feminists, Echidne and Amanda, standing up pretty vigorously for men and boys, and desperately anti-feminist Flannagan blithly running them into the dirt.

Look, are there women out there who really, genuinely, truely hate men's guts? Yeah. But they're not exactly feminists are they? Stereotypes notwithstanding, feminists mostly rock when it comes to men. And yeah, they get exasperated when men fall for the kind of bullshit Flannagan shovels. But that's not quite the same thing as hate is it? Not a bit.

The No-Sex Class: What the James O'Keefe Conspiracy Against Abbie Boudreau Reveals About Conservative's Opinion of Men

Thu, 2010-09-30 09:02

Via Lindsay Beyerstein’s of Big Think and other sources, it’s being reported that Republican activist James O’Keefe conspired to film himself having sex with CNN reporter Abbie Boudreau in order to somehow embarrass her and her employers.

It says a great deal about O’Keefe that he and his colleagues would cook up a stunt like this.

It says considerably more that they agree he’s such unutterable scum that having sex with him ought to be a career-ending humiliation.

Sheesh! And these are the kind of people who go around saying feminists hate men!

Here’s that story by the way.

Dirty trickster James O’Keefe’s foray into gonzo porn has ended disastrously for him. O’Keefe schemed to seduce CNN investigative reporter Abbie Boudreau in front of hidden cameras. The right wing media activist, who recently pleaded guilty to charges of attempted phone tampering, tried to lure CNN’s ace investigative reporter to a small boat, excuse me, a “floating pleasure palace,” stocked with sex toys, strawberries, champagne, hidden cameras, and Mr. James O’Keefe.

...

The memo argues that Boudreau deserves what the conspirators hope she’s about to get: “The joke is that the tables have been turned on CNN. Using hot blonds to seduce interviewees to get screwed on television, you are faux seducing her in order to screw her on television.”

O’Keefe feared that Boudreau might get the better of him as a journalist, so he plotted to destroy her with sex. Once again, male privilege and misogyny eclipse common sense.

She said it here.

I think Beyerstein’s right that the episode exposes the roots of misogyny and privilege in the daft but deep conviction that men are fundamentally unlovable and unloved. That combined with the equally deep, and equally flawed conviction that only broken or damaged women desire sex (or conversely that desiring sex damages or breaks women) breeds the desperate and self-fulfilling resentment that fueled O’Keefe’s stunt.

And just to be really, really clear here, while the conspiracy says volumes about O’Keefe and his fellow Republican’s entirely juvenile inability to shed the both of bogus Two Rules of Desire it reveals no more about their intended victim that if O’Keefe had instead planed to meet her wearing a belt filled with explosives.

Proposition 8 Defenders and the No-Sex Class Paradigm

Thu, 2010-08-19 16:16

AlwaysArousedGirl has a nice catch related to the real interest ‘wingers have in keeping marriage heterosexual. This time it’s Sam Schulman writing in the Christian Science Monitor, even though he’s more often found in rabidly conservative and neocon rags like The Weekly Standard, the Wall St. Journal, Commentary, and Orthodoxy Today.

Marriage is not about couples or lovers – it’s about the physical and moral integrity of women. When a woman’s sexuality is involved, human communities must deal with a malign force that an individual woman and her family cannot control or protect.

...

Marriage is a necessary defense of a woman’s sexuality and her human liberty from determined assault by men who would turn her into a slave, a concubine – something less than fully human. Human communities need to give women some additional degree of protection – through law, custom, religious decree, or sacrament…

...

Modern marriage is only the least worst version of marriage that has emerged from all this – but it is still necessary for women. What protects women, ultimately, is that marriage laws and customs confer upon her independence something extra – dignity, protection, sacredness – that others must respect.

Read the quote in context here.

This guy Schulman is a real piece of work when it comes to understanding the dominant paradigm’s insistence on the bogus Two Rules of Desire and the whole general ideology of women as the “no-sex” class.

Writing more confidently in Orthodoxy Today, for a readership he knows to be more conservative than the relatively liberal Christian Science Monitor he wrote

...marriage benefits women, again not just in law but essentially. A woman can control who is the father of her children only insofar as there is a civil and private order that protects her from rape; marriage is the bulwark of that order. The 1960’s feminists had the right idea: the essential thing for a woman is to control her own body. But they were wrong that this is what abortion is for; it is, rather, what marriage is for. It is humanity’s way of enabling a woman to control her own body and to know (if she cares to) who is the father of her children.

Yes, marriage tends to regulate or channel the sexual appetite of men, and this is undoubtedly a good thing for women. But it is not the ultimate good. A husband, no matter how unfaithful, cannot introduce a child who is not his wife’s own into a marriage without her knowledge; she alone has the power to do such a thing. For a woman, the fundamental advantage of marriage is thus not to regulate her husband but to empower herself—to regulate who has access to her person, and to marshal the resources of her husband and of the wider community to help her raise her child­ren.

...

Every human relationship can be described as an enslavement, but for women the alternative to marriage is a much worse enslavement — which is why marriage, for women, is often associated as much with sexual freedom as with sexual constraint. In the traditional Roman Catholic cultures of the Mediterranean and South America, where virginity is fiercely protected and adolescent girls are hardly permitted to “date,” marriage gives a woman the double luxury of controlling her sexuality and, if she wishes, extending it.

He said it here.

It gets worse, by the way. You know how everyone goes around saying it’s radical feminists who think all heterosexual sex is rape? Check out Schulman (who incorrectly identifies the very conservative feminist Catharine Mackinnon as a radical feminist.)

Radical feminists were right, to an extent, in insisting that men’s and women’s sexuality is so different as to be inimical. Catharine MacKinnon has proclaimed that in a “patriarchal” society, all sexual intercourse is rape. Repellent as her view is, it is formed around a kernel of truth. There is something inherently violative about sexual intercourse—and there is something dangerous about being a woman in a sexual relationship with a man to whom she is not yet married. Among the now-aging feminists of my generation, no less than among their mothers, such a woman is commonly thought to be a victim.

Marriage is a sign that the ever-so-slight violation that is involved in a heterosexual relationship has been sanctioned by some recognized authority.

Call me a radical here but I’m… pretty sure marriage is not MacKinnon’s preferred solution to the problem of heterosexuality-as-rape (to the limited extent even she sees it that way.) I’m even more sure her solution does not include further extending “fiercely protecting” women’s virginity and “hardly permit[ting] them to ‘date.’”

In fact, call me a real radical here but I’m… pretty certain that no matter how conservative, and no matter how genuinely leery of sex she might be, and even no matter how superficially similar the outlines of her strategies might be to Schulman’s and those of his ilk, MacKinnon’s solution is precisely antithetical to his: the way to give women agency, sexual and otherwise, is to give them agency, not to immure them in deep and often outright murderous traditions that are merely less worse than enslavement… not to construct them into traps that are at best “ever-so-slight violations” of their autonomy, their integrity, and their right to be independent human beings who’s decisions are to be respected.

And finally, what exactly do Schulman and his kind think of men that they imagine this enslavement of women to be better, safer, more dignified, more sacred at the hands of tradition than at the “mercy” of the monsters they imagine men to be? Sweet Mother of Pearl! And these are the folks who imagine that feminists hate men!

—-

The remaining points against Schulman have been better expressed by others but they bear repeating

  • The most dangerous place for a woman is in her home.
  • Women are most likely to be assaulted, battered, or murdered in their homes.
  • Women are most likely to be assaulted, battered, or murdered by a husband, domestic partner, or male family member.

and finally

  • If the goal of traditional marriage really was the protection of women from men rather than the protection of their property value* as exchanged between men then, as AAG so nicely puts it, women would be far better off marrying 80-pound Rotweiler/pit-bull-mix attack dogs. Or as one of her commenters put it, they could marry their cans of pepper spray. Or as Holly Pervocracy would probably say, a handgun. (Although as Holly also points out, one rarely has one’s handgun, well, handy when you tend to need them most: when around male friends, dates, and partners. Just sayin’)

But of course the traditional institutions of marriage were never meant for the protection of women. And the extent it ever was necessary, the advent of classical-liberal conservative institutions as manifested in the notions of, say, rule of law founded on principles of individual rights held self-evident in our and other constitutions has made it less so.

Sheesh! Where do they get these guys? Who’d want to marry one of them?

Oh, right. And at the end of the day, of course, Schulman says (after claiming, naturally, that some of his best friends are gay) marriage must remain forbidden to same-sex couples because if you let just anybody get married then the special role marriage carves out for women might be lost.

He says it as if that were a bad thing.

* As in “thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife, nor his house, nor his cattle, nor his man servant nor maid servant, nor anything else that is thy neighbor’s.”

It's Not Feminists Who Hate Men Item #1,4134,325: Senator Ensign's Single Donor For the Year Edition

Fri, 2010-04-23 19:31

Speaking of disgraceful outings, via yesterday’s mid-day political-news roundup at DailyKos, here’s word about admitted adulterer Nevada Senator John Ensign, who’s also under investigation for abuses of office for attempting to hush things up…

Jon Ensign had just ONE donor all of 2009, and TPM talked to him.

“He did some bad things with his personal life,” Robert Donald, a Las Vegas retiree, told TPMmuckraker. “But as a senator, he’s doing the right thing. He votes the right way.”

He added: “He’s back with his family, so I don’t see any problems.”

Besides, Donald said, “all men are dogs, the way I look at it.”

Donald added a whopping $50 to Ensign’s coffers.

Read the quote in context here.

Adultery is pretty par for the course for conservatives, as is abuse of power, nepotism, and mis-allocation of funds. What seems to have sunk Ensign is that he did the latter in combination with the former. Otherwise he’d have had considerably more than one donation last year from…

...a bunch of other anti-feminist assholes who

... largely agree with Robert Donald that “all men are dogs.”

They’re also the people who insist no, really, it’s feminists that hate men!

Sweet mother of pearl!

If masculinity is so superior why such tight leashes on little boys?

Sat, 2007-12-01 21:36

Someone named Jay, guest blogging at Feministe talks about little boys…

Saw a new patient yesterday who apologized for bringing her three-year-old son to the appointment with her. He did pretty well; she brought a bunch of toys and a coloring book and a box of snacks, and she told him in advance that he could have the snacks when I came in the room, so he settled down with his crackers while we talked.  It’s never a surprise to me when kids start to wiggle or wander around during Mom’s exam. It’s hard to sit still when you’re three.  But it does still surprise me when mothers – whether they’re patients or friends – say the kind of thing this woman said to me:

I’m really sorry about him {child is doing nothing unusual, just climbing on and off the chair} My older one, she’s six, and she’s an angel. But he’s all boy.

Meaning what, exactly? That boys are devils? That being active is somehow evil behavior? I know, I know, she probably didn’t mean that he was evil, but he was sitting right there, listening to this. I have enough trouble with the idea that kids are “good” or “bad” – we don’t use that language with our daughter. Kids are concrete, and they’ll take what they hear very seriously. [Emphasis in bold is mine —fl] But beyond that is this idea of being “such a boy”.

She said it here.

Yeah, and people say it’s “Teh Feminists” that go in for male bashing. Fshyeeah right.

When the ultrasound for our first child came back boy-positive we were a little stunned, since, for some reason, my partner and I both had had vague mental images of having girls. Reaction to the news in our mostly-conservative neighborhood, and even among our more progressive and mostly-childless friends was even more one-sided: “oh poor you.”

That the situation was to be exacerbated by him being a Scorpio boy highlights the deep experiential degree of empirical rationality behind either the boy-problem or the birthday one.)

In fact he came out just fine. Fine enough, in fact, that when we got the ultrasound back on our second child and discovered the next one was going to be a girl we were… once again a bit stunned! And in fact she came out just fine as well. Far more brash and boisterous, and severely less cautious or bookish than her older brother but a natural gymnast, awesomely strong for a child her age, and a natural, scary-smart aptitude for math. In other words, all in all both our children are well within the parameters for normal, healthy, happy, active human children. Stereotyped expectations to the contrary not withstanding.

—-

Jay also happens to nicely answer the allegedly imponderable question: is it possible for individual or social sexism to oppress men or boys.

My patient thinks she’s struggling with her son because “he’s all boy”. I think she’s struggling because she’s hundreds of miles away from her family and friends with essentially no support, and every message she hears is that her kids have to start NOW, at age 3 and 6, to prepare for competition in the big bad capitalistic world where they will have to make their way alone, just like she and her husband are making their way alone. They need health insurance and housing and money to put the kids through college, and no job is secure, so he works all the time, and because he works all the time, she has to manage all the kid stuff and house stuff herself. So a kid who sits and plays alone is a lot easier than a kid who really wants to get up to the top of the china cabinet and see if he can fly.

I wish she had a real community, a society that supported her family and bridged the isolation. I wish we as a country valued something other than material achievement. Maybe then she could expand her vision of what kids are and enjoy her smart, active, questioning son, and come to see him as an individual who is all himself, and not just all boy. [Emphasis in bold is again mine. —fl]

In other words, yes. And who exactly is oppressing boys and men with these narratives of defectiveness, hyper-activity, indiscipline, immaturity, and so on? Would that be feminists like Jay or her feminist colleagues at Feministe?

Trick question: No.

Instead it’s the same anti-feminists who claim feminists hate men.

Note: Jay, a primary-care physician, usually blogs at Two Women Blogging.

Real Men Don't Need "Special Rights"

Fri, 2007-11-30 16:48


Photo by Flickr user S.Languay. Used under a Creative Commons license.

So… some bozo writing for Redbook magazine rehashes a plate full of stereotypes about men and tries to call it “male secrets.” And some (relatively uncharacteristic) bozo at WebMD decides his site has to channel it.

Jeff Fecke, at Blog of the Moderate Left has a nice takedown…

Last night, I had a pain in my knee. (Probably bursitis; nothing major.) At any rate, I went to WebMD to check my symptoms and reassure myself that it was, indeed, nothing major, and I came across their list of most-read stories. Number one on that list? “11 ‘Don’t-Tell-the-Wife’ Secrets All Men Keep.”

Really? “All Men?”

The pain in my knee receding into the background, I opened up the story. And it did not disappoint in its craptacularness.

Like all “X things that are absolutely true about any given gender” stories, it was a mix of things that are true for all human beings, things that aren’t true for all human beings, things that aren’t true for all men but are supposed to be, and things that are just naked, raw sexism at its worst.

He said it here.

Fecke calls bullshit on each of the 11 “all things true” items in turn. Follow his link, above, if you want to find the original WebMD post as I’d rather not send them the traffic.

Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon takes her own stabs at the list. One that really hits home to me:

Secret #4: Earning money makes us feel important

In more than 7.4 million U.S. marriages, the wife earns more than the husband — almost double the number in 1981. This of course is a terrific development for women in the workplace and warmly embraced by all American men, right? Right?

Yeah, well, that’s what we tell you. But we’re shallow, competitive egomaniacs. You don’t think it gets under our skin if our woman’s bringing home more bacon than we are — and frying it up in a pan?

A lot of people come to me with questions like, “What do you feminists mean by ‘male privilege’?” This is a good example. Can you imagine a woman saying, “I know it’s shallow of me, but I need to make more money than you in order to feel all woman. Would you be a dear and hold back on your career to soothe my ego? Thanks!” while running out the door, sure the answer is yes. We’d rightfully consider that borderline sociopathic unwillingness to be generous to your chosen life partner, if a woman said it. But a man does, and it’s not considered right exactly, but at least just a cute “boys will be boys” matter that women are expected to tolerate.

She said it here.

See? It really is male privilege to say “By the way, hon, my ego is more important than you so do you mind, like, y’know, handicapping yourself economically? Besides, like, I can’t get it up if I’m not earning more money than you.”

It’s also… um… well, since it’s mostly conservatives[*] who are into this whole male-dominance thing, isn’t it worth pointing out that asking women to deliberately sideline themselves so they don’t outperform their partners sort of… like… affirmative action for men? I mean, and really, there really did used to be laws like that — in 37 states in the U.S. for instance, during the depression there were laws forbidding women from taking traditional male jobs, especially if they had a working husband. And… really… when you think about all the conservative handwringing over the ill effects of affirmative action on everybody else then doesn’t it stand to reason that… well… look at it this way…

Maintaining social conventions, let alone passing legislation, in order to artificially bolster the self-esteem of men by, say, handicapping otherwise perfectly capable, competitive women means you think men are really wimps, babies needing momma and daddy to pretend they’re really all grown up…

Now if we lived in such a society then we might predict a particularly mollycoddled set of men men would come up with, and make most popular on WebMD, a list of, oh, say, eleven fictional “truisms” they believe excuses them of any maturity, responsibility, authority, equality, choice, or authenticity. (Oh wait!)

Actually, as Marcotte puts it

...this entire list is insulting to men. Yes, it insults them in a way that a lot of men embrace, because it lets them off the hook for both house work and emotional work. But it paints men like little babies that immediately start to whine the moment even a minor task is asked of them.

Yeah, weird how anti-feminists who go on and on about “male bashing” feminists never notice how much utter bullshit they routinely bury men in! Sheesh! Thanks but no thanks, guys. I have a feeling real women like real men, not little boys all pretending to be big while wimping out on pretty much all responsibility that doesn’t involve bringing home money and shooting at something (each of which the average woman seem able to do about as well as the average man, or could if law, convention, stereotype, and fragile ego didn’t get in the way.)

[**] Yes, yes, some progressives too, but they’re generally chagrined rather than smug when called on it.

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