online dating

Amanda Marcotte on Using Access to Gawker Media to Snub Someone She Didn't Want to Date (But Went Out With Him Again Anyway)

Thu, 2011-09-01 15:37

Note: Revised title -- initially I said she asked him out for the lunch date. --fl

I really like Amanda Marcotte's take on the recent brouhaha over Alyssa Bereznak's snobby link-spam post for Gawker Media about snubbing a millionaire she met on OKCupid because he's a Magic: the Gathering gamer. (And since Gawker pays her on a per-hit basis I'm not linking to it.)

Anyway, Amanda said

The problem I saw in the reaction in comments on the post and elsewhere was that all the various issues with this post were getting tangled up and people were getting confused about what was okay about this and what was fucked up.  So, for clarity's sake, I'm going to list what are the three entirely separate questions that this post brings up, and weigh in on how they're different issues and shouldn't be confused.  The questions were:

1) Was Bereznak wrong to reject Finkel on the grounds of dweebiness?

2) Was Bereznak wrong to go onto Gizmodo and tell the story, using Finkel's name?

3) Was Finkel wrong to "forget" to mention that he spends most of his free time playing Magic on his OK Cupid profile?

...

[M]y answers to these questions are:

1) Absolutely not.

2) Yes, and this is the real cruelty.

3) Yes, but.....

Source: Pandagon

The "yes but" being that Bereznak says Jon Finkel effectively lied on his OKCupid profile by failing to disclose that he's a big gamer (actually a really big gamer, though mostly retired from the game.) Amanda's position, and that of most right-thinking people, is big f-ing deal.

She doesn't mention it but it sounds like he also "lied" by failing to disclose that he's also independently wealthy because he evidently took his MtG card-playing skills to one of those pro poker tournaments and won three and a half million dollars. But I digress.

 

As Amanda says

Where Bereznak really shit the bed is with #2. There's no reason on god's green earth to name the guy in your post. Now this post is going to be in Google searches for his name. I can't for the life of my understand why she thought using his name was appropriate. It's just as good a story without naming him. In fact, it's a better story, because the moral of her story---be upfront about pertinent information on your dating profile---comes across as a more universal lesson when you're discussing an anonymous date. It's easier for any of us to project ourselves into the situation that way.

Actually I'm inclined to disagree about who's most damaged by the post. Finkel's a minor legend in a major "sport" (if you call poker a sport) and a major legend in a minor one. His public response to Bereznak's hit piece is kind of awesomely temperate. And years from now the story is likely to be no more than one of those quirky "did you know" asides in a larger write-up about him.

Bereznak, on the other hand, comes off looking like a jerk for snubbing a gamer (and publicly calling him a dweeb, an "infiltrator" and making various other nasty aspersions about anyone who's a) a nerd and b) trying to date women. That seems to be what's bugging most people about the piece. But what seems more significant to me is that whereas after the first date she Googled him long enough to find out he was a Magic champ she didn't go any further before expressing her repulsion. Instead he sounds like a moderately interesting man with a very interesting history. Which seems like completely unprofessional behavior for a nominal blogger for Gizmodo. That too is now enshrined in Google's archives. That won't be a problem as long as she stays with Gawker Media -- she and they seem like a perfect match! It might be a problem if she tries to find work with a credible media outfit. Being a smug jerk isn't really much of an impediment to good journalism. Being a jerk and a bordering-on-incompetent researcher doesn't look so great.

A Different Perspective on Conventional Craigslist Connections Requests for Partners

Sat, 2010-05-22 10:42

In an interview with an unnamed journalist at the bafflingly-organized-to-me Big Think Rutgers anthropologist and “male studies” advocate Lionel Tiger makes a big extrapolation from what I think is a small amount of data… that also drew my attention to an interesting society-wide view of gendered sexuality. First, here’s the snippet that caught my eye.

Lionel Tiger: Overwhelmingly when we look at say sexual want ads in newspapers, it’s decreasing now because of the internet, but when these things first came out women… men would always ask for women who were affectionate, warm, fertile, good looking. Women invariably asked for men who were reliable and to quote, unquote, professional.

Read the quote in context here.

Tiger naturally takes this to mean women just “naturally” want men who will support them while they raise babies. Oddly for a “male studies” advocate he provides no analysis of what men are looking for. His whole point, however, is that the questions reveal innate truths about what men and women instinctively want out of their sex partners. I think that’s over reading it.

My guess instead would be that by asking for affectionate or good looking women or reliable and professional men for hookups (he says he’s specifically talking about want ads for sex) the correspondents were just signaling that they weren’t interested in creeps, cranks, or losers. Call me a rebel, I know. And trivial enough that by itself it wouldn’t be worth a post.

But check this out. The snippet was small enough that you could switch genders without bothering to run the whole thing through Regender.com. But since I had to look up the URL anyway here’s the result

Linda Tiger: Overwhelmingly when we look at say sexual want ads in newspapers, it’s decreasing now because of the internet, but when these things first came out men… women would always ask for men who were affectionate, warm, fertile, good looking. Men invariably asked for women who were reliable and to quote, unquote, professional.

Verify the claim, and read the rest of the regendered version of the interview here.

So. Quick question. What response would you expect to Craigslist “Casual Encounters” ad by a man pitching himself as “fertile?” Or a woman who pitched
herself as “professional?”

It’s not just that those characteristics would be counter to gender stereotypes, they’re actually not generally considered desirable. The connotations of a “fertile” male sex partner tend to veer towards irresponsibility with possible overtones of egocentricity. The connotations of a “professional” woman tend towards either “ball busting” or else avaricious.

When, in fact, most men obviously are fertile (elsewise why all the fuss about contraception?) They’re affectionate too. And the average woman is exactly as reliable and professional as the average man.

And because I get the feeling this all sounds a bit vague I’m just saying that…

1) Contrary to Lionel Tiger (or, say, many pop evolutionary psychologists) I suspect that what passes for innate biology in Craigslist ads and elsewhere is mostly normal people looking for conventional qualities in partners. But!
2) With the limiting factor being that while it would be just as sensible to ask for affectionate natures and good looks in men, or reliable professionalism in women, actually doing would tend to raise more questions about what you were looking for than they’d answer… with the possibility that you’ll attract responses from people who might not be conventional
3) You’re mostly going to see requests that are artificially limited to convention rather than limited by anything “innate” or genetic.

7orbetter.com? Searching the Length or Breadth of Internet Dating

Sat, 2009-05-02 20:14

Another post I’ve been meaning to get to. Back in April Margaret Jezebel let us know about a new dating website.

Do you hate wasting your time dating guys and learning all about their thoughts and feelings only to find out later that they have an average-sized penis? Then 7orbetter.com is the dating site for you.

7orbetter.com is a new site for people interested in meeting men with penises that are seven inches or longer. According to the website, the mission of 7orbetter.com is to let women know “upfront if a man has what it takes to satisfy you sexually.”

She said it here.

Margaret quotes Washington City Paper writer Amanda Hess’s wry reaction

Isn’t society just terrible? A “properly behaved woman” who is only interested in men with huge penises may have to wait months-months!-before figuring out that the man that she has spent months falling in love with has been hiding a dick that’s slightly too small to deserve that love. Now, with Seven or Better, that woman can know from the first date the exact dimensions of that penis she doesn’t want to see yet.

Hess said it here.

Margaret adds that the site welcomes people of all persuasions including men seeking men and, perhaps less intuitively, women seeking women. She also says the editors want some sort of 3rd-party verification and they take a dim view of “any photograph [they deem] to be of such superior quality (i.e. modeling shots, magazine pages, etc,) that it raises the question of that photograph not being a reasonable representation of said member.” It’s not clear what exactly they mean by “said member.”

I know men are raised to believe that length of erection is better but, at least on the heterosexual side most people I know who’ve expressed a preference seem to prefer girth over length.

It’s all moot to me, of course. I may be tall, and I may have big hands, but I’m otherwise perfectly average.

NSFW Caveat: If you’re an adult you can click here to see a disappointingly (according to 7orbetter.com) average cock. In a disappointingly cluttered environment.

Ok, playing cupid

| Tags:
Fri, 2007-10-05 11:23

Ok, so while I’ve been sitting here on the couch first after periodontal surgery I’ve also been playing around with online dating sites. Not that I’m actually contemplating dating, but enough other people do that I thought I ought to at least see what it’s all about.

I signed up for several free services and while they all seem fairly similar I wound up spending the most time on OkCupid. That’s ok, I think, because it seems to be both pretty popular and also pretty representative. (Though actually except for maybe the addition of photos, instant messaging, and an HTML front end I don’t think there’s been that much change in these services since the very early computer-punch-card days of “computerized dating” back in the 1970s.)

One fun thing about OkCupid is that while a well-designed matching survey probably needs less than 100 questions to match two, or ten people with a very high degree of confidence, this site allows anyone who’s answered x number of questions to add questions of their own. Consequently there are now thousands.

Now fortunately you don’t have to answer them all — after about 300 you reach a theoretical “match” rate in the mid-90’s percentage-wise, and past that point you need to answer on the order of hundreds more questions to bump your theoretical maximum even a bit higher. (Note: this is the same reason polling companies can get such small margins of error after asking only “a random sample of 1024 likely voters:” surveying ten thousand more wouldn’t change the margin of error enough to justify the additional cost.)

So if answering hundreds more questions doesn’t really provide that much extra benefit why bother? Well, one reason is that, at least with OkCupid, if you find someone who’s listed as, say, “85% match, 82% friend, 3% enemy” you can request what they call a “WTF report” that lets you compare their answers and yours. Another section, “Tests Taken” shows the scores of any of the little “personality” quizzes the system offers (more on that in a moment) as well as questions the other party has marked as particularly important to them. Yeah, yeah, that’s why you’d take all that extra time, right?

Well, the other reason is they’re fun, they give you something to think about, and, when you stack up all your answers, they give you something to think about.

All good fun. In fact, so much fun that “Just here for the questions” shows up fairly often in people’s profiles.

Anyway, you can now learn more than you might possibly ever want to know about me via my OkCupid profile.

p.s. As with any number of unexpectedly successful websites some of the core features weren’t developed with an epitome of good taste. For instance they refer to people who’ve visited your profile as “Your OkStalkers.” Which might not be that ok for some people. Other than that it’s an, um, ok site. Certainly the people it decides would be highly suitable (80% or higher) matches and friends seem like very nice people who I really would be compatible with.

User login