pick-up artists

Thanks To Feminism Women Can Afford to Hook Up With Starving Writers and Other Nominal "Losers"

Wed, 2011-04-13 11:34

Photo by Flickr user waltarrrrr. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Photo by Flickr user waltarrrrr. Used under a Creative Commons license.

Using her powers of feminism (and personal preference) Ozymandias dismantles yet another PUA restatement of the worthiness trap (a subsidiary of Rule #2.)

No girl wants to cuddle with an unaccomplished writer hack who lives in his dad’s basement.

I do! I do! Pick me!

Well, I mean, if he's nice, and attractive, and likes Star Wars. and enjoys going down on me, and can talk intelligently about some topic other than sports, because I am biased against sports. Which gets back to the main point: thanks to feminism (remember, Roosh? That thing where women can vote you were complaining* about before?), women get to pick their dates because of compatibility, and not because of their pocketbooks, because women have money too. You're not "pulling one over" on women when you fuck them while not  being rich. You're reaping the benefits of feminism, which made it so women don't care about how much money you have. Love used to be a trade of sex for money a little less crass than prostitution. Now it's the connection of minds and bodies, both primal and celestial, combining the highest and most animal instincts in the human soul, and it's some cool fucking shit.

Source: Ozymandias's Crushing and Venting Engine of Doom

Rule #2, you'll recall, says that it's not really conceivable for men to be just intrinsically sexually desirable and so if we want sex we've instead got to instead earn by doing or having things that are deemed admirable or worthy in some other dimensions such as a good income, a nice car, a heroic job like fire figher or rock star, political power, or some other form of "status" that women will trade sex to gain access to.

And so by that logic a starving writer (or, worse, gamer!) should never, ever get laid.

Except, as Ozy and others regularly point out, unless they're a complete dicks men like that actually get laid approximately as often as anyone else. Because, in fact, those Cee-Lo lyrics, "I guess the change in my pocket, wasn't enough. ... If I was rich'a I'd still be with ya. ... Yeah I'm sorry I can't afford a Ferrarri" are almost always wrong. Handy if, but mainly only if, you don't want to confront the likely real reasons a partner left you or wouldn't go out with you in the first place.

Actually... hmm... I have to admit I'm not enough up on the nuances of PUA culture but for all their talk about nice guys, alphas, and jerks I can't remember how PUA strategies are designed to cope with the fairly routine question "what does she see in that loser?" Where the loser in question clearly isn't an "alpha," isn't a jerk, and isn't really identifiable as "worthy" in any other way. But does seem to break all the rules about women not liking unremarkable but "nice" fellows. I'm not saying PUA culture doesn't deal with the question, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to percolate to the top of the usual lists.

* Earlier this PUA guy "Roosh" had said "Charm died in Western women on August 18, 1920" To with Ozy replied "When they got the vote! That Roosh, such a charmer."

Still Not Convinced?

Sat, 2008-04-12 15:57

In case you aren’t ready to agree that, contrary to classic feminist theory** the dominant paradigm puts women in the “no-sex” class rather than the sex class then Holly of The Pervocracy has the goods.

Bruno just sent me a wonderful booklet on how any guy can learn the secrets to “getting” lots of women, and I figured that was worth a post…

Anyway, damned if I’m going to read 90 pages of this shit, but the general gist is that women need to be tricked into “giving up” affection and sex and being a manipulative little weaselboy is the height of studliness. Implicit in this, of course, is what Figleaf would call “the no-sex class”—the ridiculous belief that women don’t want sex for the same regular horny reasons as men, and therefore will only have sex if tricked or somehow paid. I’ve heard variations of this belief in a million places and it always drives me insane, because, well, I’m really horny. And of course I’m not horny for all people or at all times, but when I’m not, payment won’t help. Pay me enough and I’ll fake it, but I cannot be paid or tricked into feeling horny.

But why make fun of the underlying assumption when there’s so much to be made fun of in the book?

Read the rest of her takedown here.

Seriously! You look at the stuff Holly’s pointing to and you just gotta ask with anti-feminist friends like that why would anyone believe feminism is the enemy!

Extra credit from Holly

Holly’s Two-Step Pick-Up Magic:
1. Say hi to a woman. Talk to her like you’d talk to a human being.
(1a. This will not always work, and not always lead to `. This is not because you lack some asset or skill, it’s because she didn’t wanna. Don’t take it personally and try again.)
2. Once you’ve gotten to know her a little better, continue to treat her like a human being. The panties will melt down her leg, I tell ya.

The comment thread is pretty marvelous too.

The whole “PUA” thing just gives me the giant creeps because other human beings aren’t a goddamn game, goddamnit. You don’t want to make a girl feel like you’re her friend, you want to be her friend.

And, from Dw3t-Hthr, who blogs at Letters from Gehenna

I posted, a while back at Taking Steps, about how some of the Nice Guy Tee-Em types seem to think women are some kind of arcade game. Put in the cheat code, get laid. Only the cheat code doesn’t work on this woman like it did on the last one, it must be broken.

[** Critical note: The “no-sex” class theory merely restates classic feminist theory to better fit men’s experience of it. It does not otherwise refute or invalidate feminist theory. —fl]

"Pick-up Artistry" Do's and Don'ts. Especially Don'ts

Sun, 2007-12-30 09:33


Image titled “Skepdate” from Cectic.com. Used under a Creative Commons license.

Jess McCabe of The F-Word Blog inadvertently points out that controlled studies are more useful social indicators than random journalism assignments:

A woman carries out a speed dating experiment. She goes to one such event as a human rights lawyer, interested in economics, politics and Proust. She strikes out: the men are terrified. She goes to a second night as a ditzy, brain dead florist who says things like “why is water wet?” The men love her.

The conclusion? According to Tanya Gold, the dating guinea pig in question, men are much more interested in stupid women:

Everything my mother has ever told me about men is true. They didn’t care that the florist couldn’t recognise a chair. They liked it. The feminist revolution didn’t pierce their hearts; it only made it into human resources. If you want to be loved, just scoop out your brain and act like a child. After 40 years of feminism we shouldn’t really burn our bras. We should burn our men. Love may be dissembled but statistics never lie. Reader, let me tell you: men want me – and you – to be lobotomised.

Read the piece in context here.

Well, that sounds pretty horrible, right? Well, it is horrible. But also horribly sloppy. First, check out the methodology of the author, Tanya Gold of The Guardian

I decided to attend a speed-dating night as a fabulously successful, dazzlingly literate human rights lawyer, and then another as a gibbering idiot who works as a florist. Who would the men fall for?

As a lawyer, I walked into a Soho bar. My first date appeared. I smiled at him, and said: “I am a human rights lawyer (grin).” “I work 60 hours a week (grin).” And watched him shrivel up. “I’m an engineer,” he said (no grin). And then he was silent, so I told him I was reading Heidegger. He stared at me as if I had told him that I boil men’s heads.

...

Then came Robert. “I’m a florist,” I smiled. The reaction was instantaneous, passionate and almost molecular: “Can I buy you a drink?”

Then came Harry. “Let’s not talk about me,” I said. Bang – he asked me out. Just like that. On the spot.

...

I could have been engaged by 11.17pm. But instead I went home and sifted through the evidence. Only one in 20 of the men I met on the Soho love coalface wanted to date a woman who had heard of Proust (19 of out 20 cats don’t prefer it). Yet eight out of the florist’s 12 men wanted to be gibbered at again and again and again.

Read the original article here.

Ok, call me an unlettered lout, but pretty much all I know about Proust is that every time I bite into a madeline I think about what kind of nightmare it would be to have to read all seven volumes (I had to look that up too) of Remembrance of Things Past… since that sort of thing seemed to have driven the Steve Carell character to attempt suicide in “Little Miss Sunshine.” :-)

This is not, incidentally, an intended dig either at Proust or Scholars thereof. The point being that I’m not sure one out of twenty people, men or women, at a “So-Ho love coalface” would have heard any more about Proust than I have.

Which sort of brings up my next concern: if she’d recruited a male colleague to repeat the experiment as closely as possible how might he have fared with women? Let’s look at that first paragraph, m’kay?

If I’m speed dating in London’s Soho District (”...an entertainment district which for much of the later part of the 20th century had a reputation for its sex shops as well as its night life and film industry. It has a long history of providing a range of eating places.) and I was to plop down and say I was a workaholic pro-bono lawyer who unwinds by reading Heidegger… I’m not sure how many people (women if it was hetero speed dating, men if it was bi or gay speed dating) would take me up on it either.

But that’s not really what I wanted to talk about. Ok, maybe, a little. As I read about Tanya Gold’s little unmonitored human-subject experiment I did start out wanting to mention that I thought men would fare about the same as she did. But!

As I continued reading it occurred to me that Gold had been (whether intentionally or not) mimicking the Before and After characteristics of “pick-up artists” (PUAs) in the “seduction community” (SC) who run around supporting each other’s efforts to “pick up” women.

And trust me, if your standard approach to dating is to brag about how much overtime you pull and how many Nazi-endorsing German philosophers you read, then, yeah, pretending to be a florist who says “Let’s not talk about me” is going to get you someone else’s phone number way, way, way faster, m’kay?

And to be honest, that brings me to what I really, really wanted to talk about. Something germane to both Gold’s article and the whole PUA business: only one in 20 people (male or female) are really going to be interested in a tremendously dull tosser who likes to break the ice by talking about work or dead Germans whereas three out of four people respond well when you pretend at making undemanding but playful conversation that’s more about them than it is about you. I get that. That’s pretty much the core of good pickup/seduction/icebreaking conversation, and so if you’re naturally inclined towards the first then learning how to manifest the second is going to work wonders.

But the one part I wish Gold had tried — the key to most good first-approximation experiments — would have been the “control group” experiment of pretending to just be herself! Y’know, an intelligent, outgoing, humorous and adventurous, professional woman. Because I could be mistaken but I’m guessing that in any given situation that way more than one in twenty men, and maybe not that much fewer than one in four, might have given her their phone numbers. And that’s the point I think a lot of would-be pick-up “artists” need to think about. Because when you’re shy, and you’re worried that you’re not going to be able to “score” with someone else unless you can say something interesting, and so when given the opportunity you either sit there silently stewing over “what can I say, what can I say, gawd her eyes are drifting towards her watch, I’ve got to think, got to think” or else spout out the first thing that comes to mind, like

[I got a PhD in economics at Cambridge.] It was incredibly rewarding. Are you interested in economics, Eric[a]?

... then, yeah, it’s not going to work out so hot. But here’s the deal. If you’re shy it’s easy to decide that it’s the being-an-economist-which-is-dull part that turns prospective partners off when in fact it’s the trying-to-think-of-something-interesting-to-say-which-is-dull part that’s the problem. Sure, being an economist isn’t terrifically interesting, but instead of throwing around subtle digs (PUA “negs”) or wearing aviator goggles in a bar in order to seem interesting, it’ll work wonders just to say something entirely non-clever like “Let’s not talk about me…” Even if you’re “just” an economist. Or florist!

Anyway, points to Jess McCabe for the (literally) thought-provoking link, and half points to Tanya Gold for a half-baked, massively stereotype-polishing, but still productive opinion piece.

Pick-up Artist "Negs" that might actually work

Fri, 2007-08-10 18:53

Ok, so Melissa Lafsky of Freakonomics has a column up about the “master” pickup artist technique of “negging” or insulting a woman you’re trying to manipulate into having sex with you.

Under particular discussion is a pickup technique that Mystery advocates known as “negging” — a move that involves interjecting an insult during an initial conversation with a woman. The motivation behind the insult is, as Esquire’s A.J. Jacobs puts it, to “lower her self-esteem, thus making her more vulnerable to your advances.” While this tactic has provoked considerable ire, by all accounts from Strauss and his skirt-chasing Svengali, it seems to work.

Read the rest of her post here.

By the way, I think I see the point and in my experience I even think it’s worked for me. The idea, according to pickup artists anyway, is that by insulting someone you’re letting her know you’re so knuckle-draggingly confident she’ll want to have your babies… or something like that. Sheahright.

Actually I think how it works is if you’re not just trying to get on her good side with tapioca-warm flattery then maybe you’re not trying to get into her pants… and so she’ll lower her guard long enough to give you the time of day… whereupon, since all but the most sincerely, egregiously, monotonous human beings have some redeeming features, she might actually find you interesting.

Now. While I don’t get the impression most pickup-artist consultants pitch it this way to their clients, if you’re going to go throwing negative comments at someone in hopes of getting into their pants you might try making them constructive insults.

How about something like “Ew, you must have read that New York Times article or something. I can smell the cooked dead cow on your breath from all the way over here!” Or maybe, “Hey, I see you’re a pretty good dancer but do you really think you have to kiss other girls with your top up to get guys to notice you?”

Sheesh!

Word to the wise, guys:

1) “Negging” is only going to work until it gets out that men who insult you are just trying to get into your pants. (Make that “men who appear to be trying to deliberately insult you” are.) Then it’ll just be another line women have to be wary of, and all the men who’ve been banking on it will be even less likely to make genuine contact with someone with pretty much the same libido but a lot more trust issues than they do.

2) I’m guessing that what might really work with “negging” is that saying something negative about another person still usually registers as an attempt to be interesting and/or interested in them. The choices for appearing interesting and interested in them aren’t limited to a) fawning remarks and peeks down their blouse and b) snarking.

Didn’t I just say “sheesh?”

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