pickup-artists

All You Need to Do to Refute PUA Theology: Walk Through Gatlinburg, Tennessee

Photo by Flickr user Old Shoe Woman. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Photo by Flickr user Old Shoe Woman. Used under a Creative Commons license.

So I'm in an area without a lot of connectivity so posting will probably be even lighter than usual till Saturday.

But we spent the day in the southern Appalachian tourist-traps of Sevierville, Pigeon Forge, and Gatlinburg, Tennessee. And all I can say is that

a) Virtually every man you'll see there is not only in a relationship but in one with children

b) Very, very few men you'll see there are Pick-Up Artist "alpha."

c) For that matter barely half would count as PUA "betas."

I'm not going to post photos.

But...

Just sayin'

Update: It's not that the men are all that different from men anywhere else.  In fact it's that they're all pretty much the same as anywhere else!  But contrary to popular belief, and PUA expectation, they're married, their children look like them, their wives or partner seem to like them well enough, and so on.  Even though not even the young ones have "game."


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Pickup Artists May Need to Avoid Germany... Assuming This Gender-Preference Research Applies Only to Germans of Course

In a post titled "Germans prefer looks over wallet size," Patrick Morgan has some very bad news for sundry rump evolutionary psychologists, pickup artists, and all-round cranky misogynists (emphasis his)

Results of an explorative empirical study on human mating in Germany: handsome men, not high-status men, succeed in courtship.

Recent research on human mating depicts men as searching for physical attractiveness (PA) and women as searching for status.

...

Surprisingly, the answers given by male and female subjects regarding sociosexual behaviour and mating preferences are predominantly congruent. Sex differences among preferences for good looking and high-status partners were small or even insignificant. Lower educated subjects had considerably higher status preferences than higher educated individuals. In both sexes, PA was much more preferred in a potential partner than status. For both sexes, physical appearance was decisive for the subject’s dating attractiveness.

Source: Discover Blogs NCBI ROFL

Actually it's surprising if and only if you fall for the first bogus Rule of Desire. If you do then you're going to be a lot more comfortable believing that women are more attracted to money or power than to, you know, physical desirability.

If you're over all that then you're probably going to be even more comfortable with (yet, still, further) confirmation that both men and women are human beings.


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Computer Geeks Tend to Be Very-Well Paid So Maybe "Low Status" Isn't the Real Reason For Their Relationship Complaints

Image via Global Nerdy. Cached as a bandwidth-conserving courtesy
Linux Journal Ad Image via Global Nerdy.

Check out Restructure's plain awesome post up about those "low status" geek men that women are never interested in... because they only go for guys with money.

The average American IT individual makes about 35% more than the average American household. In other words, the average American male with an IT career is “high status” in terms of economic position and adult social position.

Class privilege among male IT geeks from mostly white, middle-class backgrounds shelters them from the economic realities of most American families. Moreover, the male-majority IT culture allows sexist stereotypes about women to proliferate without being challenged. Spurned male geeks prefer explanations which blame women for their romantic failings and which reason that women are innately shallow, and these explanations are embraced by fellow male geeks with similar hurt feelings.

Source: Geek Feminism Blog

I'd just add one observation here: In America today, sort of by definition, the word "household" sort of implies a heterosexual couple and family.  Which in turn sort of suggests that men of "lower status" than single IT guys are nevertheless able to form perfectly durable heterosexual relationships.

Note: the rest of Restructure's post suggests the real issue for geeky men may be low contact with women rather than low status. It's a pretty interesting post.


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Pepsi AMP: iPhone Apps for Guys Who Aren't Even Named Bubbah

Adam Ostrow of Mashable! says

The company recently launched an iPhone application for its AMP energy drink called “before you score,” with “score” meaning (to put it in the most subtle of terms) having a successful night with a woman.

...

Now, guy-centric marketing is nothing new for AMP, who often promotes itself through male dominated extreme sports (formerly, it was known as Mountain Dew AMP). The ads are also somewhat reminiscent of AXE, who insinuates in much of their advertising that its products will help you with members of the opposite sex.

But that’s simply a (far-fetched, but whatever) product claim. Here, AMP has actually built features into its application that make it seem one can systematically “score” by exploiting women’s naivety. Beyond that, they actively encourage users to promote such conquests through social media.

Read the quote in context here.

I can’t imagine why but for some reason I’m reminded of an old friend’s step-brother who was from the part of Louisiana where if there were vampires they’d all have buck teeth.

Anyway, according to my friend, when they were young men back in the 1970s his step brother got a job as a carpenter. That’s fine, they were from a long line of construction workers and the step-father was a concrete contractor. What was a little odd was that the step-brother bought a shiny black-leather and chrome carpenter’s belt. What we even odder is that, my friend swore, he wore, over his swim trunks, to the swimming pool! Allegedly because he thought women would think it was hot.

No, this guy wasn’t named “Bubbah.” That was his older brother’s name. This step-brother was named C.J., which was short for Clyde Julius. (My friend always called him V.I., which he said was short for Village Idiot.)

I dunno. I’m guessing today C.J. would hang out by the swimming pool ostentatiously trying to pickup women with his AMP app on an iPhone. With, I’m guessing, not much better luck. But he’d probably drink a lot of AMP soda so I guess that would be a good match and thus a marketing win for PepsiCo.


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Mystery Method for Women

Hortense of Jezebel has a great post reviewing worst-person-in-the-world candidate Dr. Pat Allen’s new dating-advice book The Truth About Men Will Set You Free: ...but first it’ll p*ss you off! Her advice, in a nutshell, is for women to fall victim to the Beauty Trap in order to meet male victims of the Worthiness Trap. Here’s a snippet Hortense passes on from an interview of Allen by Erin Lawrence in Examiner.com.

EL: How important is being in good shape?

Dr. PA: The best bodies get the best money. It’s based on statistics. Rich women are thin unless they’re from another culture where men have freedom to have many women.

Read the quote in context here.

In other words the dating goal for women is men with money, the dating goal for men is women with (locally) prized bodies.

Digging deeper into the Examiner interview I also find

EL: Do men really care what you’re wearing?

Dr. PA: If he just wants sex he doesn’t care what you’re wearing. If you have a vagina that’s all he cares about. But if he’s looking for someone to relate to then he cares. Think like you’re going to an interview.

Read the interview here.

This is actually half true. In my experience men who want sex won’t much care what you’re wearing, true. But in my experience men who want someone to relate to won’t much care much what you’re wearing either. It’s not that we won’t notice what you’re wearing, it’s that it would probably be a mistake to waste a lot of time picking exactly the right thing on our behalf.

There’s more though

EL: What are some tricks of the trade?

Dr. PA: Ask for help. Or make comments. But don’t personalize it. Don’t move on him and don’t interview him. Men like to help. Hide your Thomas Guide.

And WTF with the “going to an interview” thing? It’s all sort of the women’s equivalent of PUA advice for men. Yes, if your purpose is to “get” someone then, for men and women, it might be helpful to behave as if you were interviewing for a job. But being a boyfriend/girlfriend… being a partner isn’t a position like coffee-urn attendant or tonsorial artist.

Except, evidently, in Pat Allen’s universe.

And towards the end the gloves come off — she really is just dispensing PUA-for-women

EL: Is there a Secret Weapon that will secure a first date?

Dr. PA: Look for five seconds and then smile. Unless you have something to say that’s innocuous. Be approachable. Smile. Desensitize him so he knows I’m friendly but that you’re not going to pursue him. Keep on being friendly. Then it’s easier for him to approach you.

Seems to me what we need is a book called something like “How to Land a Pickup-Artist and Live the Lie You’ll Both Love.” It would have advice about how to recognize PUA techniques and respond positively to them! Because, seriously, it might be easier to help people who want to live that way hook up with each other than to convince them it’s neither necessary nor particularly fulfilling to do so.

!@$~!#%


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Why It's Probably Better To Ask Women What Women Want Than Try to Guess

Lynn Gassiz-Sax of Noli Irritare Leones has the definitive takedown of the “women want bad boys” conceit.

If we women really crave, above all else, guys who are nothing but trouble for us, shouldn’t John Hinckley have totally nailed Jodie Foster? Aren’t scary violent guys with guns exactly the kind of jerks that, according to the Nice Guy™ narrative, we should be falling over ourselves to sleep with? Or could it, just possible, be that the reason lonely murderers weren’t getting laid to begin with was that they already had that violent streak in them, and when women met them, they encountered things that made the hair on the back of their neck stand on end.

She said it here.

And while a seeming counterfactual would be the numerous fan mail, including marriage offers, tendered to Ted Bundy after he confessed to being a serial killer, the fact that his admirers numbered at best in the low hundreds in a nation of hundreds of millions says only that for every Whacko Jacko there’s a Whacko Jill.

Lynn continues (emphasis mine)

In fact, though we’ve all had the experience of rejecting guys who were genuinely nice enough, but not for us (the guy, say, who totally disagrees with you about whether he wants kids, or who’s the most amiable fundie you could ever meet, but you’re Unitarian, or who otherwise just isn’t on the same page as you regarding something on which you really need to be on the same page), we’ve also all rejected guys who made the hair on the back of our neck stand on end. The guy who carries a knife, and one of his first questions is whether you’re connected with any guy bigger than him, who could beat him up. The drunk who volunteers, right off the bat, that he’s going to beat up any guy who pays you any attention. The guy who tells you a long story about how God sent messages to him in traffic lights to go and find his ex-girl friend, and then says, by the way, you look a lot like her, and you look rather romantic, right now, against that post. Oh, we may sometimes fall for the smooth talking guy with great pecs who will cheat on us in the end (just as men fall for the female equivalent), but we also have a basic sense of self-preservation that, when we listen to our gut, leads us to avoid the most scary dangerous men who want to go to bed with us.

That line about bigger boyfriends who could beat him up is classic by the way. And classic projection too. I’m not sure you could completely parse the notion in a thousand pages but some of the high points include:

  • Internalizing the worthiness trap that says men must be “higher status” to “earn” or deserve “higher status” women. (When, in fact, women, being human beings just like everyone else, tend not to imagine themselves as prizes granted.)
  • Tacitly acknowledging their acceptance of a particularly primitive patriarchal system wherein female partners are effectively spoils of war instead of, well, partners.
  • Weirdest of all, an abiding insecure certainty that their place in the system is uncertain and, especially, that they’re unlikely to succeed in it. (This is similar to the assumption I think drives a lot of men’s preference for virginity or inexperience which is that they won’t compare favorably to any of the woman’s previous partners.)

But the big thing that’s implied is that the NiceGuy™ strategy is really a secondary strategy in an “alpha male” paradigm… that if the NiceGuy™ was only bigger, only able to beat up other men, and maybe better with a knife (a knife?!?!) then instead of all the smarmy “Pickup Artist” tactics he could just grab you by the hair and drag you out and nobody better try and stop him.

There’s also the… interesting assumption that all women want big, rich, violent partners. There’s also the assumption that all women’s attraction is transactional — that if you don’t “lock her in” some how she’ll kite off with anyone bigger, richer and/or more violent than her current partner.

There’s also the equally interesting tangle of assumptions that — assuming women are autonomous anyway — their attractiveness quotient is linked to their attraction to big, rich, and violent men such that the more beautiful the woman the bigger, richer, and more violent her partner is likely to be. Or, assuming women aren’t autonomous, that the more physically attractive they are they’ll automatically fall prey to end up in relationships with those selfsame bigger, richer, or more violent men.

What’s most disturbing, of course, is that none of this seems to be particularly true about women. Yes, some women sent Ted Bundy love letters just like some men are Ted Bundys or John Hinkley Juniors. But just as it would be… rash to assume all men are or want to be closet Ted Bundys or John Hinkley Juniors, so it would be rash to assume all women have or would like to send them love letters.


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Dale Carnegie: Anti-PUA (Pick-Up Artist)

Replying to Auguste’s “Ten Worst Books to Read During Sex” meme at Pandagon, journalist/blogger Lindsay Beyerstein of Majikthise said.

I was going to suggest “How To Win Friends and Influence People,” by Dale Carnegie. But then I thought “Remember that a person’s name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language” is good bedroom advice, especially compared to the names of other people, especially those of former lovers.

Read the comment for yourself here.

A quick random Google of Dale Carnegie quotes also turns up “You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you.” Also “Pay less attention to what men say. Just watch what they do.”

Not bad for someone born in the 19th (yes *19th!) Century! Sort the inverse of the 21st-Century cable-TV “pick-up artist” view of relationship building.

And if one can forgive his 19th-century gender pronouns one can see also:

“You’ll never achieve real success unless you like what you’re doing.” Which is appropriate considering how stressed we tend to get about dating, “finding the right person,” and even pickup scenes. (Back in the day it seemed to me that a lot of the heavy drinking and drug-shuffling at weekend bars and “mixer” parties was a lot less about lowering “inhibitions” and a lot more about anesthetizing stress.)

“The successful man will profit from his mistakes and try again in a different way.” Tip: “Maybe next time I should wear bigger aviator goggles” is trying again in the same way. Expecting the universe to fit our preconceptions is kind of… hard.

“If you want to gather honey, don’t kick over the beehive.” Sound advice for MRAs and counterparts alike.

“Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are.”

For that matter, see also:

“The person who seeks all their applause from outside has their happiness in another’s keeping.” Remember just as it’s alienating to use others for sex it’s also alienating to use sex for something other than, well, sex. (As in for personal validation. See also, again, Easton and Hardy’s The Ethical Slut.)

Anyway, yeah, I remember doing a Carnegie course for work years and years ago for communications and public speaking skills. I remember they spent a lot of time clarifying that the way to “win friends and influence people” mostly involved learning to be genuinely more interested in other people. Where the trick was being genuinely interested and not just being better at making them imagine you were.

With a lot more years and a lot more time spent thinking about sex, relationships, gender roles and sexual stereotypes I think the actual mechanism for success with that method is that if you’re genuinely interested in people, even if you’re just chatting them up in a bar time-zones away from home, is that if you’re actually just interested in someone for his or her own sake then it stops mattering whether you hook-up or not. Which itself, in addition to being its own reward, also improves your chances.

Which, yeah, makes it sort of the opposite of the PUA philosophy (at least as articulated in the 24 seconds I saw on some cable channel the other evening.)

I still wouldn’t read Dale Carnegie during sex… but he wouldn’t be in the ten-worst-books list either.


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I don't know what we see-saw in each other

Scott Adams, cartoonist and author of The Dilbert Blog, says

One of the services I provide to hetero male readers of this blog is teaching you how to obtain sex from women who are too good for you. To that end, I scour the Internet looking for scientific articles that can give you an edge.

Read the quote in context here.

On the one hand it doesn’t matter exactly what the science article is about. And on the other hand it doesn’t do any good to complain about Adams himself since he says a lot of what he does to provoke people into flaming him.

And check out that one clause “...how to obtain sex from women who are too good for you.” That’s a deliriously well-condensed mult-dimensional assertion of the “no-sex” class paradigm wherein men indoctrinate ourselves to believe that even if women were autonomously interested in sex they wouldn’t be interested in sex with us!

I think I’ve mentioned briefly that whereas heterosexual behavior is best explained by an exclusive-to-men theory that women are the “no-sex” class, the rest of the best explanation is an equally ill-founded but this time, I think, shared belief that men are the sex class. I keep meaning to develop that side but for now I’ll just say that, corresponding to men’s persistent “no-sex” class-paradigm-fueled misapprehension that “women are too good” for them is a corresponding misapprehension among a lot of women that “I could have sex with any time I wanted if I just lowered my standards.” You hear some variation on that fairly often too. It’s based on the assumption that men — as members of the sex class — will always say yes as surely as women — as members of the no-sex class — will always say no.

Neither belief is true in any sense of the word “true”, and, worse, each creates misery between both genders. (If I were a cynical cartoonist of human nature I’d probably come up with a short series about a woman trying to lower her standards enough to connect with a guy who’s blind to the possibility that she could see anything in him.)


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