polyamory

A Prudish Libertine's Thoughts on Jealousy

Sun, 2011-07-17 10:50

One of the things I've learned as a reluctant but sincere monogamist is that a heck of a lot of what we construct as jealousy amounts not to possessiveness but longing.

Clarisse Thorn on Why Active Monogamy is Also Sex Positive and Thus Needs No Apologies

Thu, 2011-06-09 15:33

Clarisse Thorn, who's written thoughtfully on the appeal of BDSM and polyamory and swinging in the face of their standard objections takes a good long look at the appeal of monogamy in the face of its standard dissents. She concludes

Personally, I always think it’s really key, during any sex-positive critique, to emphasize from the start that whatever you like is cool as long as the actions you take are consensual. I know people who act all apologetic for being monogamous, usually because they’ve been overexposed to “polyvangelists” who argue that non-monogamy is “better” or “more evolved”. This is silly! Liking monogamy doesn’t have to be justified, as long as you don’t turn around and claim that non-monogamy is bad and wrong. And liking monogamy is a perfectly awesome reason for preferring monogamy!

Source: Clarisse Thorn

For probably the same reasons "sex positive" has been wielded by those seeking to lever consent through peer pressure often enough to be spoken of with everything from cynicism to scare quotes. (The same thing happened to the word "liberated" in the 1960s and 70s when it became a euphemism for "you should want to have sex with me the way I want to do it even though either you don't find me attractive or you don't enjoy what I'm proposing."

But as I like to point out from time to time, sincerely, without ironic, and with no tepid "to be sure" boiler plating, to be sex positive is not about agreeing to or endorsing any proposed sexual act or interest. Instead it's to acknowledge that other people might consciously, willingly, and deliberately find sexual gratification by means that don't necessarily do the same for you.

For this reason being sex positive is exactly opposite being automatically open to any activity any partner might propose. The closest it comes is to being willing to recognize or at least to consider what might be appealing about a practice to others even as you decline to participate yourself. (Case in point: does Sen. David Vitter's baby-play fetish appeal to me? No, it doesn't even turn me off! Except perhaps in the most general terms I don't understand the appeal at all. That said, while I'll avalanche his ass in stickleburrs for his aching, supercilious hypocrisy actively condemning others for acts he enjoys (non-monogamy, sex work, and fetishism, all with adults who have affirmatively decided to participate) I recognize that it's something that intensely gratifies him sexually and that it either appeals to his partners as well... or at least doesn't trouble them enough to decline to participate.)

But here's the trick: while sex positivity is often discussed in the context of acknowledgement and toleration for "non-mainstream" activities such as kink, BDSM, polyamory, LGTB orientations, or sex work, it necessarily implies toleration and acceptance of asexuality, disinterest, and even squicks: real sex positive people are as respectful of "no thank you" as they are of "yes please." Even if those who really, truly would never say no themselves.

But it especially implies toleration and acknowledgment of monogamy. Because after all, even in very open societies monogamy (serial or lifelong) is the most frequently chosen relationship option. Yes, of course, there's enormous (sex-negative!) pressure to make and keep monogamy the default or even the only sanctioned form of relationship. But that in no way invalidate the choice of those who are attracted to it at all, at all. Nor does it invalidate the very real benefits Clarisse articulates that make it attractive to those who choose it, even as many others are attracted to the benefits of their own choices.

Turns Out Polygamy, But Not Monogamy or Polyamory, Imposes High Reproductive Costs on Women

Wed, 2011-03-02 01:27

Sooo....

If I was a pop evolutionary psychologist or sociobiologist I might spend all my time pondering how it's just seed-spreadingly natural for men to want to be polygamous.

Oh, silly, me.  Actually if I was a pop evolutionary psychologist or sociobiologist I wouldn't ponder any such thing.  I'd take it as axiomatic -- requiring no proof beyond "makes sense to me" -- and cheerfully use that axiom to prove anything else that popped into my little brain. When pressed by people with a modicum of gender-studies in their background I'd blithly breeze by way of explanation that hogamous-higamous, men are polygamous.

The other axiom I'd posit would be that women just don't like sex in the first place, and that therefore they're grudgingly going to aim to have it as infrequently as possible, preferably with as few men as possible.  And explain that with higamous-hogamous, women are monogamous.  Oh, and bitches too.  Oh, or if they didn't match my axiom, whores.

In evolutionary biology, on the other hand, it's more common to actually ponder whether there might be a reproductive benefit or cost underlying any inclination towards something like monogamy.

Something like this tidbit, via from Holly of Self-Portrait as, who says --

...low fertility rates among Mormon polygamists. My favorite bit:

the more women partnered with a man, the fewer children each of those women had. Exactly why is not clear. Like the Soay rams, men may simply not have had the stamina.... The failure of the Utah polygamy experiment should therefore not be seen as that surprising.

Source: Self-Portrait as

Reading the article it sounds like, in fact, on average, women in polygamous marriages tend to have approximately one fewer child for every fellow "sister wife."  And no, that's not a stretch.  Stories of sultans or Mormon patriarchs notwithstanding, most polygamists have somewhere closer to two to four wives, meaning a one-child per fellow wife isn't going to put anyone in negative numbers.

Anyway, EPs and sociobiologists tend to go on, and on, and on, about how men can fertilize bazillions of women in a lifetime while women's "investment" of pregnancy, lactation, and staying home in the cave-kitchen limits their reproductive potential to a relative handful.  And they brass on about how that means men are "naturally" likely to collect wives and partners willy-nilly whereas women are going to just as "naturally" be all gate-keeper-y and discriminating.

Which never made much sense to me -- in the real, non-Flintstones version of "the state of nature" related groups of women with satellite groups of men seems pretty common, and those groups of related women are usually able to collectively gather and trap enough to feed themselves and most of the men.  So while women might tend to care about fathers, and be interested in having men in their lives, and definitely interested in the meat and other foodstuffs men tend to hunt and forage for.  So in pure reproductive survival terms that's never seemed like a good enough reason to "evolve" a preference for monogamy.

If I were to going to assume that women are "naturally" monogamous, though, and if I were further inclined to go looking for facile sociobiological explanations for why that might be, then the likelihood that getting rooked into polygamy creates a material reduction in women's reproductive potential ought to be just about all I'd need to start making that case.

---

Getting back to the original article, the reference to Soay rams is about a variety of sheep that do the whole alpha male head-butting fights over harems thing... but basically run out of sperm.  In comments someone pointed out the tendency for women to ovulate in sync.  That would tend to put a pretty heavy limit on men's ability to productively "spread his seed" in his own "harem."

Which in turn leads me back to the suspicion that "collecting" wives is probably a relatively recent function of property accumulation rather than some sort of "on the savannah" biological adaptation.

---

Note that whereas women (and females of other species) are evidently reproductively harmed by polygamy, there wouldn't necessarily be the same issues with polyamory, either overt or covert.  So whereas men might be concerned about "cuckoldry," women (in polygamous marriages anyway) would positively benefit from it.  But in monogamy?  Not so much -- which at the very least ought to be a monogamy selectivity-stabilizer for men. (Don't hold your breath waiting for a pop sociobiologist to bring that one up.)

Holly Pervocracy: I'm not a serial monogamist! I'm a parallel monogamist!

Thu, 2011-01-20 11:43

The other day Holly, deconstructing relationship clichés with her usual aplomb, said

I'm not a serial monogamist! I'm a parallel monogamist!

Source: The Pervocracy

That's the way to look at relationships even if you're just "sleeping around" and not poly at all. For that matter it's the way to look at non-sexual relationships.

And here's the trick, and why I like Holly so much: we usually don't think of it that way but that's actually is how most people look at non-sexual relationships. Except we don't call that "parallel monogamy," we call it "having friends." So despite the refreshingly radical perspective her proposition isn't radical at all.

Correlation Not Causation But a Fun Study Anyway: "Women or Wine, Monogamy and Alcohol"

Tue, 2010-12-28 13:52

Via Tyler Cowen here's a great example of correlation not equaling causation in a paper by researchers Mara Squicciarini and Jo Swinnen called "Women or Wine, Monogamy and Alcohol (pdf)" Here's the abstract.

Intriguingly, across the world the main social groups which practice polygyny do not consume alcohol. We investigate whether there is a correlation between alcohol consumption and polygynous/monogamous arrangements, both over time and across cultures. Historically, we find a correlation between the shift from polygyny to monogamy and the growth of alcohol consumption. Cross-culturally we also find that monogamous societies consume more alcohol than polygynous societies in the preindustrial world. We provide a series of possible explanations to explain the positive correlation between monogamy and alcohol consumption over time and across societies.

Source: Amerian Association of Wine Economists Working Paper #75

They're quite clear that the connection really is a correlation, and they do a reasonably good job of explaining how the two trends tended to develop in parallel.

Question: Should polyamorists take note? :-)

Personal Past Participles of Polyamory: On the Startling Discovery of Wanting Old Partners More Than New Ones

Sun, 2010-10-10 11:47

I’ve been reading Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy’s The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures lately, the new edition, and it’s been making me think. A lot.

I was thinking about it as I was drifting into a Sunday afternoon nap (after picking up the house and preparing a menu and shopping list for the week but before shopping and cooking for dinner guests tonight.) And what I thought was how nice it would be to reconnect with some of my past long-term partners. And then I thought how often the conflicts that drove us apart might have been mediated by other people — either by their advice and influence or, sometimes, by their ability to meet real needs that we ourselves couldn’t. (For instance my old partner who, at that time in her life, really needed a decades-long relationship with another woman — we got along great in most other regards but no way I could meet her need for that.)

And it seemed, as I was drifting off, that maybe I haven’t been thinking about polyamory with cultural Playboy/Mormon/Sultan blinders — of polyamory as finding new partners to add to one’s current relationships. As opposed to what suddenly seems a lot more natural: to restore common bonds with those we’ve held life in common with. And, this being about polyamory and not polygamy, I think it would be just fine if they also restored common bonds with other partners of their own.

I don’t think that’s crazy talk. And I’m sure I don’t know what my present partner would think of it. And I am going to go back now and take my nap. But…

Yeah, I think I really like that vision.

Maybe more on this later.

On Bogus Comparisons: Is Monogamy Better Than Polyamory? I Dunno, Are Apples Better Than Oranges?

Sun, 2010-10-10 07:44


Photo by Flickr user davidrlewis. Used under a Creative Commons license.

Coke Talk of Dear Coke Talk lights into a reader who wanted a “devil’s advocate” case that monogamy is superior to polygamy.

[P]olygamy is not the opposite of monogamy. The terms may share a common etymology, but in colloquial use they have fuck-all to do with each other. Monogamy has come to define a broad concept associated with human sexuality. Polygamy has come to define a narrow concept associated with plural marriage in fringe religion.

I think maybe what you’re trying to ask me is to make a case for monogamy over promiscuity. Okay, fine. Does monogamy make you happier than promiscuity? Yes? Then it’s better. For you. I can make a case for minivans and vanilla ice cream too, but who are we fucking kidding? You’re asking for a value judgement where one isn’t necessary.

Monogamy and promiscuity are mutually exclusive lifestyles, but they don’t have to be in opposition unless someone like you insists on calling one better than the other. Quit being so judgmental.

Live how you want to live, already.

Let others do the same.

Read the quote in context here.

I think that’s about right: are apples the opposite of oranges?

How Socioeconomic Conditions Shape Stereotypical Gendered Behavior

Wed, 2009-04-29 09:31

A couple of thoughts based on reading Cheri of Secret Lover’s Lane response to an anonymous commenter who, evidently informed by the Two Rules of Desire, claimed, roughly, that women want only emotional rewards from sex and men want only physical rewards. (In her post Cheri angrily but ably challenges the commenter, as you can for yourself here.)

Claims of sociobiology not withstanding, it seems like our social structures make it so that women can’t afford to prize physical enjoyment with multiple partners and men can’t afford to prize emotional rewards with partners either. Our traditional social contract says women must be economically marginalized to the point that they and/or their children will suffer if they don’t hitch their wagons to someone who’s earning power isn’t artificially suppressed. And meanwhile under the same contract men are expected to financially and socially support any partner they form emotional bonds with (see “kept woman,” “mistress.”)

“Can’t afford” is obviously not the same thing as “don’t have.” I’m not necessarily endorsing polyamory. I don’t think it’s bad, I’m just not necessarily endorsing it. But, for instance, rethinking the constructed dichotomies would benefit both men and women in serial monogamy, short-term pre-relationship dating, or the kind of studious “hookup culture” relationships. Especially in areas where there’s enough social and economic parity, sufficient income/productivity/social-infrastructure, and access to fertility management to allow individuals of any gender to raise children independently.

Getting back to Cheri, point #2 would seem particularly clear because while she’s married she’s the primary income earner, the primary household manager, the primary child-care provider (though I could be really mistaken about that) and the one most experienced with what she seeks in multiple relationships.

I keep forgetting to do this but if you’re an adult you can click to see a possibly not-work-safe image.

"Evolutionary Psychology" True... Except Where It Isn't

Fri, 2009-04-24 12:05

Megan of delivers the goods on the story that gendered promiscuity/monogamy is genetically determined.

The idea that men try to impregnate as many women as possible while women try to hold on to a provider is derived from fruit fly behavior. Its applicability to humans is becoming increasingly questionable.

There’s a ton more here. Go read it.

Bottom line: the sociobiological/ev-psych model of promiscuous men and monogamous women holds up quite well in (very contemporary in evolutionary terms) locations where… well… promiscuity in men and monogamy in women are either tolerated or encouraged. In other locations not so much.

If you’re an adult you can click for a possibly not-safe-for-work image.

Infidelity and Its Aftermaths

Mon, 2008-11-24 16:00

B of B is for blog, wrestling with a problem between her partner and his most (and evidently only mostly) recent ex-partner, raises little-discussed problem with infidelity (emphasis mine.)

I had always trusted them explicitly, I’m not the jealous type. Earlier this year R admitted (after I had found some damning evidence on his phone) that they had ‘nearly’ slept together in our bed. I haven’t spoken to her since, although not out of my doing. She has been avoiding me.

She said it here.

Think there’s a corollary of the Washington-D.C. maxim that “it’s not the scandal that brings you down it’s the coverup” in there somewhere? Oh yeah!

I think in a lot of cases the real consequences don’t arise from what the “betrayed” partner feels about betrayal (especially if it’s undiscovered.) It’s how the betrayers feel, and consequently behave, about the betrayal.

Thoughts?

User login