Not exactly sure if this is relevant, but currently my (monogamous) sex life is looking pretty abstinant (sp??)

I have always had a high sex drive and for about the first two and a half years of our relationship I would get incredibly frustrated if we didn't have sex for more than a day (no exaggeration)

I've also found monogamy a very difficult prospect, especially as my partner is VERY vanilla (a term, I regret to say, I taught him to hate without realising what I was doing)

So now I've adjusted to monogamy and non-experimental sex, my libido seems to have disappeared.

One other issue is that it got to the point where I almost always felt my advances were rejected because it was inconvenient at the time

NOW, I'm also a LOT less physically active, working longer hours, extremely stressed by work, he's working longer hours, I've changed contraception and back again hoping that was part of it... I don't think it's 100% psychological

But I actually feel very disturbed by my lack of NEED, when it was always a constant in my life until the last 6 months :(

[I think you've put a finger on a big part of the problem: his style isn't yours and (for whatever reason) the two of you aren't able to synchronise. And over time that really can be a libido killer because *neither* of you can probably just lose yourselves in it. It's worth pointing out, though, that it doesn't have to be a matter of high this or low that, kinky this or vanilla that. You just have to be able to get comfortable enough to move out of everyday consciousness into what Murray S. Davis called "erotic reality." It's *also* worth pointing out that externalities -- exhaustion, stress from work, other relationship issues -- can also keep us pinned in (libido-antidote) everyday mode. (Esther Perel makes the same point -- it's not that libido fades in longer relationships, it's that all the other realities and responsibilities build up.) The good news for your libido is that if it's been only six months you could just be in an adjustment-period slump and not any kind of actual "decline" at all. Thanks, Dana. --fl]

• reply

I consider myself as sexually very demanding, and had to face that reality and decided what was the most important for me, sex as much as I would like, or sex more than the average but still not as much as I would like, but with love as topping... ... I choose to adapt myself to my partner, after all, I am the one who is over demanding (based on what I hear from friends...). With a consideration, it is because I am in love... otherwise, I would adapt my own behavior to fit my needs as I did before... Multiple partners was the answer to fit my libido... but without any caring and loving feelings, it isn't as satisfying... ;-)

[See? This is why I have a problem with Sewell's contention that it's a men/women problem instead of a situational one or, in what I'm pretty sure is her case, and outright issue of asexual orientation. It's the main reason I'm frustrated with her -- not because she's missing the target but because she keeps hitting it way off center. Like many people (theoretically most) you've had to adjust your sexuality to meet a parter's. That's... pretty much inevitable (recall one of the original Murphy's other laws "never go to bed with anyone crazier than you are.) Thing is, though, that we *ought* to be able to go into these compromises without an artificial "men are this/women are that" thumb on the scales. Thank you, SeaRabbit. --fl]

• reply

Woohoo! You quoted me! :)

A long-term lack of sex is generally a sign of deeper problems. That was definitely true in my marriage.

A basic incompatibility of desire seems more a sign that the relationship wasn't meant to be. At least if sex is a priority -- which, for sex bloggers, it presumably is!

[The secret escape hatch, of course, is masturbation. For one or both parters. *Unless* one or more of the partners sees masturbation as somehow cheating. That can be a serious obstacle! Especially if it's the (situationally) higher-libido's person is denied both interpersonal sex *and* masturbation. Thanks, WS. --fl]

• reply

Sorry, I know I'm always almost missing the point Figgy, I have no abstinence/monogamy story to add, but I was slightly amused by the thought of your former gf using you for pain relief. The second day of our period for myself and many of my friends is the most painful and sex is the absolute top way of dealing with that, nothing beats it:)

[Absolutely no need to apologize, Astra. I just thought about how many relationships wind up sexless and realized that WS was right -- it's not an either/or question because it's very often *both.* As for intercourse for pain relief, it seemed more like that's just when she was really, really horny. (Thank goodness for the original Motrin, by the way! It came out while we were together and before that she was simply incapacitated with cramps. Anyone remember that?) Anyway, I'm not really that crazy about menstrual sex -- it tastes funny and while it's slippery it creates sort of a... rubbery?... slip/stop/slip/stop texture that I find really distracting. That plus I've usually been the one who had to wash the sheets. :-) I know, I know, call me a whiner. Thanks! --fl]

• reply

About four years into my marriage, the anger, resentment and exhaustion built up to a point where I did not want to be sexual with him. We would be sexual once every three weeks or so (at our worst times. maybe over a month) and I always ended up enjoying the physicalness of it once I got over my initial resistance to him. I stopped being able to kiss him. I did not go outside our marriage but encouraged him to so I wouldn't feel pressured by him to meet his needs. Eventually, after thirteen years of this, I got attracted to him again when I let go of my anger; we had great regular sex for about a year, then we both felt it time to divorce.

I agree with Loving Annie- if the relationship isn't a good one, I see the sex is often the first thing to go.

And Mrs. Mullen- you asked for feedback on what the readers would think of your definition of monogamy- I think that if it works for you and you are happy with what you have decided to do with your life, that's wonderful!! Happy you have figured out what's comfortable for you.

My only question would be if you think you have it also defined for everyone else as you appear to use some pretty heavy and judgmental terminology, ie, "hating cheaters."

While I don't see myself as a monogamous person and have only pursued outside relationships with my primary partner's full knowledge ahead of time, as of four months ago I am again monogamous as a choice. I was monogamous all 18 years of my marriage, so I do know how to do it. I see this as a phase that has no time stamp on it. In the future, I cannot see myself ever being sexual outside of my relationship without my partner knowing.

However..I would NEVER say that everyone needs to be that way or that they are slime ooze because they don't see the world like I do. As a former whore, I listen to men in their pain. Many of them go outside their marriages only after trying for years to remedy the situation inside their marriage. Their stories are heartbreaking to me. I am happy for you that your life is black and white- makes life so much easier for the person. But many/most of us live in grays. Personally, I find the gray much more interesting because it isn't easy and requires "more." I like to live with and experience people as they work through the complexities of life ...but that, like my preferences for ice cream flavor, is just me.

[I agree that the sex drive is often the first to go when a relationship is in trouble. That being part of my problem with make-up sex I think. (One fairly short-term relationship ended even more quickly because my partner was pretty abrasive when I couldn't get into sex with her. It wasn't about make-up sex, she just didn't see how there was any connection between caustic abuse and sexual interest. Hmm. Another woman who, at least at some points in our relationship, had a *much* higher drive than me. (Otherwise we were actually almost perfectly matched in libido and level of kink. In that relatinship if it had just been about sex we'd have been fine. We just weren't very compatible most other ways.) Thanks, Gillette. --fl]

• reply

Glad to hear that I am not the only person who can't do 'make-up sex'. I often need a considerable amount of time to cool off after an argument before I can feel sexually aroused.

I dated a guy for 3.5 years and we had sex a total of 18 times, usually after I cried/begged/whined enough that he gave in. He also didn't achieve orgasm during sex, which is likely why he never wanted to bother. During that time I was [fairly] monogamous (the only time I 'strayed' involved giving a drunken blow-job to someone else at a party, so not exactly for my own satisfaction). I developed a considerable complex about my sexual ability and contantly questioned how desireable I was.

Great post :) I enjoy writing that makes me think a little.

[Cool insights, Shasta. Thank you! --fl]

• reply

Sorry, figleaf, I didn't want to take up much space in my earlier comment so I didn't do a lot of explaining about my answer. In response to Gillette and I think Shy Reader (?), I still stand by my comments about cheating. There is no excuse in the world for it. I hold these feelings not because I have been cheated on, but because of the pain I see it causes in relationships of friends and family of mine.

I understand that we live in an "anything goes" society where monogamy is never a guarantee. I understand that people enjoy creating gray areas because it helps them rationalize and justify their behavior. I also understand that there are sound arguments for not being monogamous or abstaining from sex in a marriage.

I have a dear friend in her 60's who has absolutely zero interest in sex. She once told me that she and her husband have an agreement much like what you two are referring to. They've been together 40 years and are not sexual but they are still intimate in other ways. He goes off and has affairs with her consent and it seems to work for them. It was a shock to me to hear her story, but the more she narrated the story of how this came to be...the more compassion I felt for them. He's a dear man and while I wouldn't agree to such an agreement, it's an issue she says they discussed at length for months before he began his affairs.

I never said that others should hate cheating, only that I do, and I can't help but feel disgust for the cheaters (men and women) who go behind their partners' backs for their own selfish motives. Even with the men you used to fuck, Gillette, it's my opinion, but they were still cowards. You are paid to be sympathetic. To grab those dollars, of course you encourage them to cry you a river...

They say cheating occurs because of a breakdown in other areas of a relationship which causes one or both partners to wander. However, I have not seen that being always the case. My best friend A had a great relationship with her hubby and from what I gathered (and when visiting, heard on occasion from their room!) they had great sex. But he apparently couldn't get enough and she was fine with it about 3x a week. He cheated on her just to get off more often.

How do you strike that balance of sex needs in a relationship? Us single people have enough to worry about...finding a partner we are compatible with on many levels, we have to figure in a lot of things. Your sexual needs, wants, and frequency of sex should be communicated with your partner before cementing the relationship. Sexual compatibility may increase the probability of fidelity but that's not a guarantee. Those needs/wants/frequency of sex ebb and flow over time. It's a shame that a person (or both) in a relationship would rather cheat/deceive/lie than exhaust all possibilities like talk to their partner, negotiate, show respect, be loving and patient, help them get medical help (low libido/impotence), or ultimately, end the relationship if both can not work any longer on the relationship.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack from the sex bloggers because I'm not a sex blogger but that's fine with me. Maybe something I say resonates with the some small crowd out there.

[That's ok, Mrs. Mullen, we each value integrity in our own ways and, especially I didn't think you weren't putting your position on everyone else, your stand is just fine. Reading yours and everyone else's points of view I'm reminded of an old friend who defined cheating as "changing the rules without telling the other players." If you and a partner go into a relationship with clear understanding of how you both feel, and with agreements about how you're going to be, then if it turns out somebody (or everybody) didn't really mean this or that, or if they later decide that this or that no longer applies to them *and* they don't let the other party know? Cheating. And that goes for someone who agrees to be monogamous and then strays, or someone who agrees they'll be sexual without really meaning it (which Sewell makes clear she did early in her book) or what have you. We can handle a lot of stress in our lives if we agree to the rules and to how they're enforced. Cheating, however it comes out, is... well... *cheating!* So thanks for coming back to clarify. --fl]

• reply

Those needs/wants/frequency of sex ebb and flow over time

I do agree with Mrs Mullen on this one. Having been married longer than you would believe possible, we been through all combinations for all sorts of reasons. Personally I think if the basic relationship is good, it can weather all sorts of storms.

The worst time for us was when he was flying all over the world every single week and I was trying to look after the home, the children as well as my own job. We both felt like Dana, worried by the lack of need, but we were both exhausted.

Right now I'm the one with the unmet needs but I still love him and I'll get through it until things sort themselves out.

[Nicely put, A. And you highlight a couple of good points. First, when there's transparency or when everything's up front we can deal with all manner of bumps in a relationship, as you and your partner do in yours, where we might have trouble when they creep up and/or are slipped to us covertly. Second, that it helps when your partner is no less deprived by, say, travel and exhaustion than you are. That's good to know and all, but I really hope things sort out for you and your partner. Thanks. --fl]

• reply

I mentioned this post to my partner, Figleaf, and here is what Pan Kochanie said: if you want to give your readers some valuable information, tell them about andropause and its effect on the male sexual drive. So here goes.

While andropause normally occurs during the forties or fifties, it can diminish a man's sex drive while he is still in his thirties. Nor is it entirely attributable to changes in hormonal levels. Jed Diamond, in his book The Whole Man Program: Reinvigorating Your Body, Mind and Spirit after 40, has called andropause *multidimensional* and I agree. The changes in sexual desire are part of a whole array of symptoms, some of which are the result of years of physical and emotional neglect that result from living according to the gender stereotypes which we accept without questioning.

What did andropause feel like to me, as the female partner? It was as though a source of solace and comfort had been taken away from me. Sex was my balm of Gilead, the time when I could push the worries and frustrations of work out of my mind, even for a little while. If my partner and I had known about andropause, we might have treated one another with more compassion and less resentment during this time. There is a wealth of information about menopause, but so little about andropause, which should be remedied.

As is my custom, I am providing two links which may be helpful to you and your readers:
(1) The post entitled Is Male Menopause Real? from the ThirdAge Blog (Jed Diamond is one of the blog authors).
(2) Website for the presentations at The Fifth World Congress of the Aging Male, which provides some very interesting information about the links between disease and the hormonal changes experienced by men during andropause.

[Yeah, I know that, for instance, testosterone production declines from about age 30 on, with, usually a 50% drop by age 50. Ironically, while people tend to associate aggression with testosterone, numerous studies in mammals, including humans, indicates that aggression and irritability is more frequently associated with drops in the hormone. It's a fairly popular expression for why cranky old me are so often, well, cranky. Thanks for the links, Kochanie. --fl]

• reply