Coupling, decoupling, and couples

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Sun, 2006-07-30 00:01

At school the under-20 set seems way more comfortable with — almost unconsciously unconcerned about — casual sex. Yet they still fall in love, have amazing crushes, tragic heartbreaks, and generally care for each other quite a bit.

This totally contradicts the “buy a cow” model of relationships. They have all the sex they want… without it affecting their romance.

This makes sense in a big way because conservative “values” refer primarily to marginal values.

For instance only a small handful of U.S. Protestants believe men and women dancing together are immoral, and to the extent those societies are closed it’s probably accurate to say that those who dance probably are inclined to immorality. And within that society there’s a chance that relationships involving dancing have a lower probability of leading to a deep partnership.

In slightly larger circles kissing before the third date is a sign of weak character and, to the extent those societies are closed it’s probably accurate to say that those who kiss before the third date probably are inclined to immorality. And within that society there’s a chance that relationships involving dancing have a lower probability of leading to a deep partnership… while those who merely dance together go completely unremarked.

And in an even larger set of circles having sex before marriage is a sign of loose morals and, to the extent those societies are closed you could probably say that those who do have sex before marriage are loose men or women. And within that society there’s a chance that relationships involving have a lower probability of leading to a deep partnership… while those who merely dance or kiss before the third date go completely unremarked.

In other words very few conservatives argue that we should go back to completely sequestering men and women who aren’t related (as Osama bin Laden evidently believes is proper moral behavior.) And while 100 years ago quite a few conservatives decried dancing as undermining morals, common decency, and the underpinnings of meaningful relationships, today’s conservatives don’t give it a second thought because dancing, in fact, isn’t an issue at all. And while 50 years ago quite a few conservatives decried kissing as undermining morals, common decency and the underpinnings of meaningful relationships, modern conservatives don’t give it a second thought because kissing, in fact, isn’t an issue at all.

I expect that some of the under-20s who are cheerfully bopping away today are just as conservative as their elders, and I’m sure that in their middle age they’ll find something to fulminate about as undermining morals, common decency, and the underpinnings of meaningful relationships. But I’m betting they won’t give casual sex a second thought because for them it won’t be an issue at all.

And in a sense this makes perfect sense. By definition conservatives cast a gimlet eye on new developments in relationships. And by definition conservatives are going to worry about how relationships will be affected by those changes. But also by definition conservatives are absolutely, perfectly, comfortably at home with whatever was the norm in their formative years.

The prudish libertine in me celebrates the fact that “today’s youth” suffers no less romantic anguish or elation than their antecedents, despite taking sex far less seriously The libertine prude in me is happy as well since I believe that past failures to distinguish between love and lust has brought more grief who have mistaken the two than 10,000 blog posts could possibly fill.

Update: I want to make it very clear that I’m neither idealizing nor necessarily advocating casual sex (any more than, by extension, I’m calling for casual kissing or casual dancing.) I’m just saying that romance, love, and partnership don’t seem to depend on a “mystery” of sex, kissing, or dancing to endure. Or thrive.

Submitted by 844 (not verified) on Sun, 2006-07-30 02:55.

Hitler didn't womanize, smoke or drink and look what he achieved. (YIKES! See if he if he would have gotten some every now and then the world would have been a happier place.)

When it wasn't socially accepted to have sex outside the confines of marriage, there was sex outside the confines of marriage. That's why woman died from coathanger abortions. We've come a long way but we still have a long way to go.

The only objection I have to any of this is sex changes you. You don't find the same joys in the simple pleasures as if the adult switch has been flicked on. You become caught in the mating game.

The upside is the next generation won't have to fight the same shame barrier my generation had trust upon it. We were given the "egg and sperm" talk but weren't warned about sexually transmitted disease. Condoms were practically hidden in the back room behind the sign "beware of jaguar".

I have to admit, you make laundry look like fun.

[I agree that sex changes us (though kissing and dancing also change us.) And I agree that nonmarital sex has always been with us. I most especially agree that if there's a way to factor out shame and lust by, say, acknowledging that sexual attraction is legitimate, then we can a) get a better sense of what's really important about love and partnership and then b) *experience* what's important about it. Thank you, Frida. --fl]

Submitted by 844 (not verified) on Sun, 2006-07-30 10:46.

One less hangup, I'm all for that. It may be at one time, before conservatives, the ideas about causual sex were as you see them today. Probably when there were more matrilineal societies and god was mother earth.
Unfortunately, most of my peers are still living the fifties. At this age you would think you would not have deal with the same standards about casual sex as in your youth. By now my character is formed, for better or worst.

[Definitely one less hang up -- yes, only one, but a pretty big one. I keep feeling the need to clarify that I'm not talking about *casual* casual sex, especially in the 1970's walk-of-shame/have-we-met-before sense. The young people I'm talking about aren't doing that... well, no more than they did in the 1970s anyway. Instead it's just that the decision to have sex doesn't seem to have the same premium placed on it and so it doesn't seem to be as much of a "threshhold event" in relationships. Thanks, 5o9. --fl]

Submitted by 844 (not verified) on Sun, 2006-07-30 10:54.

BTW I do think men are good for more than just sex, folding laundry and opening jars.

[*Thank you* 5o9! And I think women are good for more than just sex and sewing on buttons. :-) You're the greatest. --fl]

Submitted by 844 (not verified) on Sun, 2006-07-30 20:54.

Wow how true it is when you said...."romance, love, and partnership don't seem to depend on a "mystery" of sex, kissing, or dancing to endure. Or thrive."

Sad to say, but in my opinion, in this day and age there is no "mystery" of sex for our children.

As I was talking to a teenage neighbor of mine, she informed me that in order for someone to be considered "normal" (in her high school) you had to participate in some form of oral sex with the person you are dating. Not dancing, not kissing, not petting... oral sex! I was actually quite shocked when she told me this.

So this makes me wonder... have our children progressed to this stage because so many people don't talk to and teach their children openly about sex? Do they want to experiment and participate in the things that their parents tell them are "forbidden"? (Like dancing, kissing and petting was when we were growing up)

Or is it because some parents are so open with their children regarding sex, that certain acts have just become "not that big of a deal"?

Your posts always make me think of a million questions that I would like to discuss. :) Which has prompted me to start a blog of my own, in hopes of getting answers to some of those many questions. I would like to link to your site, because you always post the most interesting topics. What is the proper "etiquette" for doing this? So, I guess I am asking for your permission to do this... :)

Sage

[First of all, if you've started a blog then you should start typing the address into the URL box in comments. It's totally acceptable manners to do so, and I think it's one of the best ways to draw to your site the sort of people who'd be interested in what you have to say. As for the mystery thing and young people -- the title of my blog suggests my take on it. Having sex in order to fit in or, worse, feel "grown up" is just as dumb as smoking cigarettes in order to feel likewise and, if you're not careful, doing either one can ruin your long-term enjoyment of adulthood. Thanks, Sage. --fl]

Submitted by 844 (not verified) on Mon, 2006-07-31 12:47.

While I'm glad that todays' youths don't have a puritanical attitude about sex, I'm disappointed that it seems like so many kids are having sex so early. I know that I was a bit of a late bloomer, but it seems like so many people have sex before they're really ready anyway, that this trend is sort of disturbing. I can't even really handle casual sex now, let alone when I was in high school!

[Well, I think that *even if they're married* people shouldn't have sex till they're ready so you can probably imagine how I feel about the general case of waiting till you're ready to start. On the other hand, I'd be a lot more comfortable if waiting for sex had no more significance than waiting till you're ready to get a driver's licence or go to college or spend the night alone in the woods. Instead we've overloaded it with all this ooetic "If you really care..." and "Let's spend the night together / now I need you more than ever..." and "This girl is a woman now..." significance that makes it harder to say, let alone know, whether you're ready. Thank you, Camogirl! --fl]

Submitted by 844 (not verified) on Mon, 2006-07-31 17:11.

Thanks Fig... just for info sake, as soon as I completely figure out how to do everything I want to do to my blog, I will start filling in the URL info. It's taking me a while to figure it all out, I'm teaching myself, cause I don't personally know any bloggers. :) So, I'm hoping to have it all figured out this week. Sheesh... if you aren't familiar with the lingo, it can be very hard work! Who Knew???? :) Sage

[You won't be a beginner for long. And since you're new I'd give you a chance to find your voice before I'd put you in my blogroll. Good luck, Sage! --fl]

Submitted by 844 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-08-01 13:40.

I just read your update and I'm getting confused. Are you speaking of sex that is part of a relationship, but outside marriage, or sex that may not be anymore than a physical attraction. If its a part of a relationship, how can that just be casual sex.

[Yes, I'm speaking of sex that is part of a relationship. I think what might be confusing is that it's sex as part of sometimes very casual relationships or, more accurately, much, much earlier in relationships than we were used to growing up. The people I'm thinking of aren't mere "fuck buddies" and even "friends with privileges" implies a degree of privilege that doesn't seem to be in consideration. Instead it's more like something that might come with being close friends rather than holding out for future life mates. Does that make it any clearer? Thanks, 5o9. --fl]

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