Posted by figleaf
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Mon, 2005-12-26 08:37
Ok, so if Santa is a right jolly old elf and not a member of my species then…
... if I’d agreed to have sex with Mrs. Claus would it have been guilty of adultery or of bestiality?
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 09:13.
ROFLMFAO Now there is a question to ponder! Thanks for the laugh!
Hugs
Des
[Glad you liked it, Des. Thanks. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 10:26.
That is a good question, Fig... I don't think it would be bestiality because 'not human' doesn't necessarily mean 'animal'. Adultery would be closer because that means someone else's spouse. "Mrs." indicates that a marriage has taken place, so that would be adultery.
That being said, beautiful picture :)
[Well, technically we're animals as well so I'm not sure about your argument. I'll think about it but I still think if it's a different species it's bestiality. ...Though I'm not sure what that makes folks who go for English cukes. :-) --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 12:27.
Maybe Fantultery, or maybe Mythicality? (Using the root terms Fantasy or Mythical for the type of creature being boinked)
and now, beyond the interesting question to the subject of the hidden offering ...
T'was that day after Christmas
And here on this blog
A l'il creature was stirring
I might' we' yet man log.
*g* lovely
[Thanks, Patty! Also, remember "bestiality" goes both ways. What would she call it? :-) --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 12:54.
Oh my! Sombody has been naughty.
I think I'll have to be naughty too...
[I like the idea, Anastasia. You being naughty, I mean. Not me. :-) --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 13:53.
I refuse to believe that Santa isn't human. How dare you go crushing my delusions of grandeur?
As for Mrs. Claus, I've suddenly got this image of her in a bonnet, bent over the kitchen table, a rolling pin in one hand, a yelp escaping her lips as she gets done doggy style. And is that an elf watching in the corner?
Oh, my.
[Y'know how it is with those classic "doctor vs. artist" ethics problems though. No easy outs. The premise was "If he's a right jolly old elf..." so that's what we've got to work with. :-) --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 16:43.
Fig, I just wanted you to know that during the holiday season one of my standing 'gigs' is playing Mrs. Claus. I've got the costume all ready for ya!
[In which case the closest one could come to bestiality would be a doggie position. :-) Thanks, Gigi. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 18:00.
Not bestiality for sure, I'm with DarkNeuro that "non-human" != "animal".
AFAIK, Christian lore has Santa Claus as a version of St. Nicholas, a historical (and presumably human) bishop. His prior pagan legend might well have had him as as an elf himself, but I'm pretty sure Mrs. Claus is a strictly modern innovation, so no telling whether *she's* supposed to be an elf.
If any of the above were elves, Judeo-Christian lore would place them as Lilim, that is, descendants of Lilith. This could be either by Adam (pre-Fall, of course) or by the demon(s) to whom she bore the "spirits of earth, sky, and water". While a priest wouldn't be too happy about any human coupling with such creatures, it's not clear that elves would qualify as demonic in their own right. (I have my own riffs on Lilith, but this isn't the place.)
Of course, even a purely Edenic creature could be pretty disruptive to human sensibilities, but elves are reputedly all of that!
[Since humans are also animals we need to define "bestiality" as "interspecies sex" which would put elves, demons, angels, or deities like Zeus across the line. If St. Nicholas is also a bishop the existence of a Mrs. Claus raises a whole 'nother set of issues. But that's all part of the fun of situational-ethics exercises. You raise them not to solve them (the best are intractable) but to assess the implications and, ideally, learn something about ourselves from them. Thanks, David. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 21:14.
Rishathra?
(An inside SF fan joke. Larry Niven's "Ringworld" series used the word "rishathra" to denote sex with other hominid species outside ones' own.)
[Oh yeah, I used to love Niven before he got, well, lazy. Interesting that no one's addressed the "adultery" side of the question. Also interesting that no one's said "both" and explained how that would work. (I'm not saying anyone should, just that it was one of the considerations.) Thanks, TR. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 22:07.
It's a fair question! Although, according to the old Christmas special, "Santa Claus is Coming to Town", he married a human school teacher. She was hot, though. ;)
As I stated on the flicker site...this series...oh my...The combination of lighting and poses just takes a girl's breath away.
[It would complicate things if he's an elf and she's human. Hmm. Maybe it would just displace it. She'd be practicing bestiality, I'd be practicing adultery, but would *she* be practicing adultery if she's having sex outside her husband's species. (And no, don't even get me started on Clark Kent and Lois Lane. As the author Tech Writer mentioned pointed out, Lane would have more genes in common with an ear of corn than with an super-powered extra-terrestrial.) --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Mon, 2005-12-26 23:37.
I say Santa and Mrs. Claus are both human. Thus, it's adultery only if they haven't agreed to have an open marriage. But Santa is so generous—if he saw your flannel robe series, I think he'd agree that the sleigh should drop Mrs. C off at your house every Christmas while he's traveling around the world.
[Wow, that's a very generous thought on your part, Orange. Thanks. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Tue, 2005-12-27 01:53.
See, I'm thinking the only thing you'd be guilty of is pleasing a woman, and in my book that's a good thing. Hope Mrs. Claus liked you as much as we enjoy the visuals.
[Good point. Thanks, Bella. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Tue, 2005-12-27 09:39.
"need to"? Why? The traditional semantics and etymology don't invoke a biology professor's definition of "animal", but the premodern sense, where humans ("people") are distinct from ("above") the "dumb beasts".
The classic ethical issues of bestiality focus on issues that apply to "dumb beasts", and especially to pets and domestic animals. In contrast, I've heard a number of reasons not to fool around with elves et al, but those have conspicuously not included questions of (their) ability to refuse consent, mental competence, or domestic dependence. Indeed, the mythology suggests some arguments the other way, with us mere mortals in the subordinate role!
I'd forgotten about Niven's rishathra, and that's a good point -- he invented a new word for it, because there wasn't one before, and probably hasn't been since the last Neanderthals died out. In mythology and most fiction, elves are treated primarily as people, albeit from "foreign parts" and magical.
[Hmm. I hadn't considered that the prohibitions were based on subordination. I mean, people get pretty wiggy if you simply speak to another human of the wrong color, gender, age, class, religion, marital status, ancestry, and astrological sign that it would follow that stepping *out* of one's entire species, no matter how similar to human or how self-determining, would be completely across the line. But maybe I'm just being specie-ist. :-) --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Tue, 2005-12-27 19:45.
Hmmm. Where I was discussing the ethical considerations because that's how I approach things, you seem to have abstracted out the social aspect of the bestiality taboo -- the breaching of "tribal" (or at least, socially constructed) boundaries. But even so, I'd think "committing" intertribal relations might get you "Romeo & Juliet", but not "cast out as a sexual deviant". :-) ;-)
[Good point, David. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Tue, 2005-12-27 21:53.
[Thanks, Patty! Also, remember "bestiality" goes both ways. What would she call it? :-) --fl]
mandultery, humestiality, saintnicality, santasscrultery.
Eth-Nick-elfin-boinke- ultery?
Take your pick. Invent your own.
If your hoping for anything more insightful LOL this topic aint gonna do it, not from me anyway. Sure is fun though. *g.*
[Humestiality? I love it! Wow. Thanks, Patty. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Fri, 2005-12-30 09:40.
Well I can't really answer that question because I can't think since seeing that picture.
Thanks for the torture.
[You're certainly welcome, Nikki. Thanks. --fl]
Submitted by 530 (not verified) on Fri, 2005-12-30 09:41.
That's in a good way.
[I knew that's what you meant. Thanks, Nikki. --fl]