First of all, it doesn’t all revolve around you. If I am discussing sexism or the unique difficulties women face, I can understand and appreciate the frustrations that men also grapple with in our society. Really, the problem isn’t so much men and women as the fact that all powerful institutions want to make everyone feel worthless, so that we will do whatever they tell us to. But, for now, I am talking about women and women’s unique position in the world, and it is not about the big picture. It is about us. About me. Your tangents derail the conversation and shift the focus so that the issues I want to raise are ignored.
It’s a good point but there’s another point: there’s too many gender stereotypes and too much gender discrimination all around so there’s no good reason to dismiss any legitimate complaint.
In Blessings of a Skinned Knee, a genuinely interesting book about raising children, Wendy Mogel says it’s important to remember that “Everybody is unique, nobody is special.”
Men get discriminated against? You bet. Women get discriminated against? Oh yeah! Each gender faces unique discrimination. At the risk of sounding woo-woo, dismissing either side with a “yeah, but…” isn’t the best way to communicate.
It’s both true and appropriate that men are learning to recognize that they haven’t exactly been handed the world on a platter either. Fine. Great, even!
If they’re going to jump into every women’s lament with “yeah, but…” well, they’re not going to make much progress.Same with women who jump on men with “yeah, but…”
I think the best answer is to say “You’re right, but I brought up this particular issue because it’s affecting me right now. I want to resolve that before we address your issue.”
The point being that there are plenty of gender issues. More than enough! Asking to stick to the issue already under discussion isn’t the same as dismissing the other person’s issue as irrelevant. Asking to stick to the issue invites the interloper to participate rather than block discussion. And assuming you’re legitimately interested in confronting discrimination period, instead of discrimination only against you, asking to stick to the issue for the moment implies willingness to listen to the other person at an appropriate time and that’s a good thing. If we’re willing to listen then it’s not a zero sum game.
Via Amber and Feministing
Submitted by 638 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-02-28 19:22.
Thanks for linking to my post, FL. All good points. Btw, you must have an unclosed italics tag, because everything from here down on your site is showing up italicized.
[No problem, Amber. I liked your post. Thank *you* for mentioning the unclosed emphasis tag! --fl]
Submitted by 638 (not verified) on Wed, 2006-03-01 10:02.
I agree that insisting on focus will more likely produce results (action?) than all-over-the-map arguing. I like inclusive "isms," like feminism that includes men in finding solutions rather than lumping them as the enemy to fight against. Arguing seems worthless to me unless positive change, or at least better understanding, results from it
[Yeah, I think the point raised over at Definition was valid: if we're currently discussing issue X then it doesn't particularly forward the discussion to say "well, Y happens too." On the other hand that's no excuse to say "Oh yeah, we'll X is unique and therefore special so who cares about Y." All you do is hack off the Y side, who then disparages the X side again, who then feels obliged to restate X, and you wind up with blah blah woof woof back and forth instead of resolving either X *or* Y. Actually all one solves for that way is an insufficiency of mutual resentment. :-) Civil discourse is critical if we wish to solve anything else. And believe me, I want it all solved or I'd say people could sling mud all day. Thank you, Xenovia. --fl]