Hugo Schwyzer has taken up the issue I raised in Unforseen Consequences of Men Believing Themselves Unseen.

In comments he ran into some perfectly legitimate but somewhat skeptical objections. The first being Lisa KS (of Punkassblog) who said

“I have lost track of the number of women of my acquaintance, now often in their thirties, who have a lot of bitterness and anger about the fact that no man has ever really intensely physically desired them–made them feel hot in the way you so eloquently describe above–no man has ever said such things to them. This same hurt and rage in women is absolutely identical, and anecdotally I’d say nearly as prevalent, as it is in men.”

Her point is interrelated to the point Hugo (and I) are raising but it’s really, really important. What Hugo is talking about is the different heterosexual gender narratives of desirability. What she’s talking about is the disconnect between gender narratives and actual real life.

In other words a) we have little vocabulary for discussing visual/physical desire for men and b) the vocabulary that exists for discussing desire for women excludes many or most actual women.

That’s not to belittle Lisa’s point. At all! I spend a lot of time thinking about it, and trying to work through it. In fact the lack of a narrative of desire for men first occurred to me while thinking about it. But they’re different problems. That both need to be addressed.

Frequent commenter Mythago said

Feeling that your body is ‘neutral’ – that men’s bodies are just sort of, you know, people bodies, but women’s bodies are the sexy ones – isn’t the same thing as “I have a penis so I’m ugly”.

And another commenter ElleDee said

“I’m having a hard time feeling too sorry for guys about this.”

and

“How about this? We (straight women) will tell you when we think you are hot if y’all (straight dudes) tell us when you think we are smart and funny and really interesting.”

Feeling sorry for men wouldn’t be all that helpful anyway. It’s at least part of a bed we’ve made and are laying in. So the most productive thing to do… for us and anyone who’s willing to help… is figure how to get us to get up.

I think that’s more critical than almost anything for getting over the next gender hurdle. The gendered beauty and worthiness traps are caustic in the extreme. Whereas Mythago correctly identifies male form as “neutral” men tend to perceive “neutral” as irrelevant. With the result that men imagine we can only be attractive in terms of material-accumulation or accomplishment. With the further result that we perceive heterosexuality as transactional. With the further result that we’re indoctrinated to see women’s accomplishments not just as competition but as an existential threat. Because, to paraphrase male-persona Red Green, “if the women don’t find you handsome, and don’t find you handy, they’re not going to give you the time of day.” And would that form a nice basis for ultimate self-hating misogyny? Why I believe it would!

So anyway, at least for me, the point isn’t to make us men feel better by broadening beauty narratives to include us. Instead it’s to further bend the gender conventions that say there’s only one way society assesses men just like we’re already working to alter the way society assess women. It’s about finding more ways to subvert the dominant paradigm wherein men are men, women are women, and never the twain shall be treated alike.

—-

Meanwhile… Mathilde Madden of Erotica Cover Watch (a blog wherein two straight women erotica authors are occasionally reviled as radicals and even lesbians for wanting to see more good-looking men on the covers of erotica written by and for straight women) reveals one of her “Man Candy Monday” sources

I was idly flicking through regular candyland Hunk du Jour and discovered I couldn’t choose between these two. I know, it’s a tough old life.

Read the quote in context here.

Most of the images at Hunk du Jour seem fairly work safe. Looks like you can find other, somewhat less work-safe sources in Madden and her co-blogger Kristina Lloyd’s blogroll.

If you’re an adult you can click here to see a possibly not-work-safe image.