Leon Kass, Megan O'Rourke, and "farting when ever he wants"

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Wed, 2005-10-26 23:38

Alyssa, of Welcome to Alyssa has a cute joke:

World’s Shortest Fairy Tale
Once upon a time,
a guy asked a girl “Will you marry me?”

The girl said “NO!”

And the guy lived happily ever after and went fishing played golf a lot drank beer and farted whenever he wanted.

As it happens, this isn’t entirely true. In a very nice takedown of Leon Kass and fellow middle-aged male Professor Harvey Mansfield of Harvard University, Meghan O’Rourke of Slate Magazine points out that…

In fact, the evidence is thin that a woman should be concerned that giving out a “sample” will make a man less prone to marriage—or a future husband less likely to want to stay with her. First of all, according to the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, “only 36% of single men agree that ‘single men have better sex lives than married men.’ “ And only 22 percent of unmarried men report feeling that marriage is “personally” not for them, even if they’re not interested in marriage in their immediate future. Second, engaging in premarital sex with the partner you eventually marry apparently does not make you more likely to get a divorce, according to a 2003 study cited by the National Marriage Project. Kass complains that “the elite, those who in previous generations would have defined the conventions in these matters, lack a cultural script whose denouement is marriage.” But is this the case? The majority of “elites” still get married, according to recent reports. And if they get married a little older—as Kass complains they do—this only seems to make their marriages more stable. The National Marriage Project reports that getting married after the age of 25 reduces the chance of divorce.

See her entire article here.

I ought to mention that O’Rourke’s piece is far more cogent than mine. “The need to tell young women how to behave often comes over middle-aged men—it’s an itch right up there with buying a flashy new car.” Yikes!

Note: I’m still hacked off that Kass chose to say that by being less chaste modern women “lower” themselves to the level of men. Screw that!

Submitted by 421 (not verified) on Thu, 2005-10-27 03:37.

Hi Figleaf, finally made it to check your blog in a bit more detail. Had already seen some pics, on Flickr and variousl CBW posts (I believe). Great writing, informative and interesting. Like how you cover lots of things about sex and sexuality. Will be back ! Also, will link you, please tell me (send) a pic you'd prefer me to use ...
Cheers - A

[Thanks, Aragorn. I've been reading your site lately too. I particularly enjoy the wonderful old-fashioned line drawings you use. --fl]

Submitted by 421 (not verified) on Thu, 2005-10-27 07:30.

It's interesting how you can tell a person's prejudice even in somewhat acedemic papers like that! There is often the underlying message that "girls should be good." If having sex means lowering myself, let's limbo!

-Christine

[Yup, there are all kinds of weird biases there. First of all why not exhort men to raise themselves to women's level? Actually they say way -- men are slavering animals, which I dispute -- but then why make it women's responsibility? Also they're asking women to be *more* chaste than they naturally want to be *in order to save men from themselves!* They say women are unhappy when they have sex when they don't want to -- that's totally fine and a position I take all the time. But they go further and say somehow they'll be happier *not* having it when the *do* want to? Left unaddressed is the obvious middle ground -- which I also strongly endorse -- that people should have sex when, and only when, they want to. And as I've said in the past, the act of marriage doesn't, and probably shouldn't, act as the signifier of readiness. (I can't think of a dumber, more fragile foundation for marriage than the prospect of finally getting laid!!!) --fl]

Submitted by 421 (not verified) on Thu, 2005-10-27 09:36.

Whoa whoa. Stop it right there, Mr. F. What do you mean by putting your pants back on? No no no! You get those pants OFF again right now. You can't get dressed again before you finish getting undressed. : )

[Sure I can! :-) You can watch anybody take off a pair of shorts. The suit has to go on so I can take it all the way off again. I hope you won't mind. --fl]

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