The No-Sex Class and Duty Before Pleasure

In an always interesting regular feature, Lo of Em & Lo: Sex. Love. And Everything in Between. runs a statement from a reader to a panel of three men to see how they respond.

“I really hate going down on guys. I’ve tried it, I don’t like it. In fact, I loathe it. I feel bad about it, but if I don’t expect oral in return (I don’t), then why should I feel compelled to do something I don’t enjoy?”

Read the quote in context here.

Yeah, feeling obliged to do something we hate during sex is just the best… um… way to… stay enthusiasti…

Um, no. That doesn’t really work, eh?

And, yeah, getting a blowjob from someone who’s half-hearted, hurried, and so not into it her mouth is cold is just such a… great feeli…

Um, no, that’s not so hot either.

I think the difference is that men have this idea that your no doesn’t mean “no, I don’t enjoy it,” it means “no, I’m holding something back.” Stupid I know. But since it’s just not true that “there’s no such thing as a bad blowjob” and since one of the best ways to get a bad blowjob is to pressure someone who isn’t into it in the first place then… it’s not about the physical sensation it’s about feeling like they’re somehow getting “all” of you.

Question is then do you really want to keep hanging out with a guy who thinks he’s getting more intimate with you by… pressuring and/or pining you till you do something you hate doing?

One of the panelists, identified as Gay Engaged Guy (Joel Derfner, author of Swish), had an excellent point…

If you don’t like going down on guys, there’s absolutely no reason you should feel compelled to do so. However, there’s also absolutely no reason a guy should feel compelled to keep dating you if you won’t go down on him. You just have to find somebody who gets his kicks in other ways. The pool will be much smaller, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t, um, fish to be had.

...that goes even better in the other direction. Sure, if a guy thinks it’s his privilege that you go down on him then yeah, he doesn’t have to stay with you… but… you really want to stay with him?

There are actually plenty of men who won’t pass one up if offered but who don’t think a blowjob is the Holy Grail. So why waste your time (not to mention compromising the quality of your sexual enjoyment) on someone who does?

Another panelist, Straight Married Guy (Matt) took a more conventional line “But wouldn’t giving the occasional (special occasion) blowjob be a little easier than banking on these super longshot odds?”

Eh. While I think it’s a fairly common strategy, saving up something you really hate for special occasions probably isn’t going to make it that much more special for you.

Here’s the thing, and no, it’s not a secret back door ploy to get disinclined women go give blowjobs after all: for a lot of people, not just women, not just men, feeling obliged to do something is enough of a buzzkill threshhold that you never get to where you might not mind it or might even enjoy it.

I don’t know about women doing it for men so much but I’ve certainly heard men say they they eat their girlfriends only for something in return. And they hate that too. Meanwhile like a lot of other men** I think eating a partner is fun all by itself because even if it wasn’t pretty, and tasty, and intimate, and sexy it’s really cool when someone is writhing and shuddering and panting your name. And for people, men and women, if you’re just feeling resentful it’s hard to register any of that. All of which means that if Em and Lo’s correspondent finds a partner who’s just not that into being eaten it might give her enough space to enjoy it. And if not? No big deal.

[** Sabina of Y Tu Hermano Tambien has a good post on men who are into being eaten vs. men who’d rather eat their partners. —fl]


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Submitted by 2655 (not verified) on Sat, 2009-01-24 06:13.

Another panelist, Straight Married Guy (Matt) took a more conventional line “But wouldn’t giving the occasional (special occasion) blowjob be a little easier than banking on these super longshot odds?”

Urgh!

I'd be inclined to see about a little bit of turn-and-turn-about in response to that, thusly:

"Okay, Matt, imagine for a moment a world in which the majority of women enjoy wearing strap-ons during sex and fucking their partner's anally with them.

Now, in that world, 'wouldn't it be better or easier to take one up the arse every so often for a special occasion or as a special treat for your partner, rather than bank on the superlong odds of finding someone who wasn't into strap-ons?' Does that sound like a reasonable thing to say, in that world?"

[Yup. The pegging thing is a great example on the one hand, since it's about an activity that probably more people resist because of attitude than experience, but possibly not so great since we have no reason to assume Matt and his partner aren't both already big strap-on fans. Since I can't know if they do I'll stick with saying the idea of "saving up" activities one partner hates as "special" treats for the other is... wow, a bad idea in at least 31 different dimensions. Thanks, SE. --fl]

Submitted by 2655 (not verified) on Sat, 2009-01-24 12:43.

Thanks for the link! And I completely agree with your point.

[Thanks, Sabina. I appreciated your point in that post. --fl]

Submitted by 2655 (not verified) on Sun, 2009-01-25 23:30.

I think there might be a gap because a lot of guys don't have that shuddery, appreciative gaze after you get them off that way. It's just....expected.

[Hi Amanda! While I was thinking about the state one gets in on the way up, not after, I think I see see what you mean. I'd say appreciative gazes after are probably more like 50/50 with women partners, with some being shuddery and appreciative after and others being "that was great, let's get up." I understand that some of that is supposed to be about different rates spent by men and women in the "resolution" phase of orgasm and all that, but... Ok, I think there are two things to work on here. First, giving men a clue that our orgasms aren't disposable and that it's actually pretty nice to relax and enjoy the afterglow. Because if you don't just jump right up there *is* one! Second, getting men and/or women a clue that it *is* just expected. That's not to say that people shouldn't be appreciative, just that sauce for the goose should be just as expected as sauce for the gander. Thanks. --fl]

Submitted by 2655 (not verified) on Mon, 2009-01-26 09:29.

I think it'd be obvious to any woman - even one who loves giving blowjobs - that the married guy's analogy of a guy who doesn't want to touch a woman's breasts is just way off. Men may love touching breasts or be meh about it, but men who find touching breasts painful or physically arduous just aren't to be found. Women may happily give blowjobs, or be meh about it, or hate it - but one reason that continuum swings as far as hate is that it's possible for the thing to be way more physically arduous than touching breasts could ever be. And if it's not physically arduous for you, then, well, part of the reason may be normal physical variation, but another part can be that you did it with under circumstances that didn't push your physical limits.

If, for example, the original advice seeker, who has tried giving blowjobs and hates it, hates it because she has been gagging when trying to give them, "save it for a special occasion" or "reserve it for that guy you think is a true knight," as the straight guys are advising, is all wrong. It may be possible for her to fix the gagging problem (if that's what's bothering her) and be fine with it - but part of that would be making sure she has total control of what goes in her mouth, and how much, when. And that the guy meets whatever conditions she needs for that to be true. And I can't think that convincing her it's selfish to be unwilling to gag would help with that.

So, the gay guy's advice that she can find what fish are to be had in a smaller pool seems better to me.

["If, for example, the original advice seeker, who has tried giving blowjobs and hates it, hates it because she has been gagging when trying to give them, 'save it for a special occasion' or 'reserve it for that guy you think is a true knight,' as the straight guys are advising, is all wrong." In fact it's about as wrong as it gets! It totally launches me my "worthiness trap" rant. Sex as a reward for male worthiness is just... just... the problem. Not *part* of the problem, the *whole* problem. Not to mention that the flip side of "a true (deserving) knight" is "hey, after all he sacrificed to earn his blowjob, you should be willing sacrifice with a little gagging and heaving." Yeah, not so great. %!#$!$. Thanks, Lynn. --fl]

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