Amanda Marcott of Pandagon has run across a quick test for identifying the half of the population that is, by definition, below average.
Fine, I’ll just open a nunnery for comedians then
The Independent has an article out about a study done on what straight men and women find attractive in the opposite sex and found over half the men found wittiness to be a drawback in a woman. Luckily for me, these findings dovetail neatly with my preferences, because I find men who won’t laugh at my jokes to be strikingly unattractive as well.
[I’ve nicked her entire post (it was short) but you can check out the rest of her sharp-witted political and social-commentary blog here. —fl]
Here are some choice nuggets from the article itself.
Men see being funny as a male thing,” explained Dr Rod Martin, who led the project. The findings are published in the scientific journal Evolution and Human Behaviour this week.
...
“When forced to choose between humour production and humour appreciation in potential partners, women valued humour production, whereas men valued receptivity to their own humour,” said Dr Martin.
Normal caveats apply: we have to wait for the actual study to be released before we can find out whether and how much the article misrepresents the actual study. And the notion that many men are intimidated by intelligent or funny women is referenced frequently (by Maureen Dowd if no one else) so even if the story’s straight the news itself isn’t exactly earth-shattering. Still of all the insecurities for men to manefest this one seems especially lame!
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 06:33.
Oh honey, trust me, it's true. No joking around. Us without dicks must titter and giggle, but dare not unveil our wisdom or wit in any way, shape or form.
I have learned that I can only tell dirty jokes to men I have no interest in. If I like a guy, I keepest my mouth demurely shut.
What a waste of good humor.
Sigh.
[What a waste of the truth about you! Crikies, Elizabeth. Meanwhile you're saying women are stuck with a choice between being honest and funny or dishonest and popular? Great foundation for lasting relationships! Yikes! --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 08:27.
Abby at Falafel Sex (not a sex blog, more's the pity) wrote at length about this one, too. As I commented there, sigh, since funny women are such pariahs I guess Blue Gal is doomed to a life of spinsterhood and unemployment. I'll have to tell my husband and three kids the bad news after work.
Love on ya, fl.
[I wonder if it boils down to a definition of "witty." Not to mention maybe what men imagine are women's spheres of humor... I dunno, I don't get it. Nice wisecrack, by the way. Thanks, Blue Gal. --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 09:53.
Wow, that's... bizarre...
Or perhaps 'I' am the strange one, because i knock myself out to make people laugh. Especially men, and especially if i find them attractive. I can NOT imagine hanging around with a man who didn't find me at least amusing, for more than two dates. Or a woman, for that matter. I find that most of my friendships with women, platonic, evolve out of shared humor. Maybe i am somehow 'masculine' in this regard? Also, the only two men i've ever really loved? Adore that i am funny, and i go out of my way to experience the particular joy of making them laugh.
[No, you're not more "masculine" because you like to tell jokes. You might not feel as bound by (stupidly) restrictive stereotypes about women or men, but that doesn't actually make you "mannish" than liking to knit or cook makes me girlish. I'm not saying there are no differences between men and women, it's just that people keep trying to gerrymander these narrow precincts when we're really "at large" districts. Thanks, Lydia. --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 11:40.
Humor is one of the most important traits in my male and female friends. I've dated, fucked, and married men who enjoy my sense of humor. That's one of the reasons I dated, fucked, or married them. (That and their natural endowments.)
I'd love to see the finished study. The skeptic in me thinks it's flawed.
[Y'know, I thought about you when I saw the headline, Mona, and thought "...uhmyeah, right!" But you know something? Why the hell does the report have to be so negative about it? Of if they're going to be negative why do it that way? I'd be saying something like "more than half of all men can't take a joke" or "fewer than 50% of men can get it up when they think their partner has a normal sense of humor." I mean, geez! Or how about "more than half of all women settle for unsuitable mates?" %#!$~$. Thanks, Mona. --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 12:04.
Well this would explain my lack of suitors wouldn't it?
I do not doubt these findings at all.
Where do the men who adore witty women live? I need to more there!
[I'd have thought they were pretty much everywhere but everybody's comments have me a bit rattled, Madame. Sorry I can't oblige, you've got a wonderful sense of humor. --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 14:51.
You know i always read your posts eagerly, and the expressions on my face vary between amused, interested, intrigued and, on occasion, lewd and panting.
But this time, i read the article open-mouthed. It was pretty damn earth-shattering to me. (And i'm a Brit.) Seriously? Men who find women unattractive because they're witty? I have never heard that. Never.
Mind you, as a *not traditionally pretty* girl growing up, without my daft sense of humour I'd never have had a boyfriend. At all. Ever. And then i'd never have become The Evil Minx. Yikes!
(BTW Figleaf, I've given up hopefully checking the Remember personal info box... *sigh*)
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 16:31.
You often hear that "sense of humor" ranks high among attributes both men and women list as important in a mate. But after many years of dating, I've long come to believe that the two genders are talking about different things when they say that. It seems that for the majority of women, "sense of humor" means "he is funny/makes me laugh" and for the majority of men "sense of humor" means "she think's *I'm* funny/she laughs at my jokes."
There are many men who are put off by a woman who is either as smart or smarter than they are, or who is as witty or wittier than they are and can engage in a good game of clever quip tossing. I'd say there's a much larger majority of these men than the ones who find a clever girl sexy. It makes me sad.
That having been said, there ARE men who find smart and funny women very hot. There are a LOT fewer of them, though, which means us clever chicks have far fewer options. But they DO exist.
Two memories of come to mind from this discussion:
An interview I once saw with Monty Python's Eric Idle where he went on at length about how women just aren't naturally funny.
The time I was advised by a guy I knew once not to tell men that I went to an Ivy League school as an undergrad, apparently because he thought that would be intimidating to them. (Didn't have to do with humor, but seems somehow connected to me, as humor and intelligence often go together.)
[It's all such a fucking rip-off though, isn't it? Men might think it puts them on top but really it's all about reinforcing the expectation that men shall do all the acting (e.g. tell the jokes) and women shall judge their merit (by laughing or looking askance.) I hate that dynamic! It's hard acting, but we're defined by our actions: everyone should get to do it. It's hard judging, but we're defined by our judgments. Everyone should get to do it. Relegating one to one gender and another to the other is just... well, it just makes for a bunch of unhapily passive-aggressive people in both genders and gives each side better reason to think less of the other. Thanks Syl. --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 16:52.
Me again. I held off from espousing my second theory-based-on-experience, because I've always found it to be too depressing to put forth. But I've just read further into the article, and it actually says this study supposedly confirms it:
"The research project...showed that while men were not so interested in "humour-producing women" in long-term relationships, they showed a preference for such types when it came to short-term relationships and one-night stands.
Lucy Porter, of BBC1's The Stand Up Show and Five's The Comedy Store, said that the people who did chat her up probably did so because 'they think that if you are outrageous on stage, then you are going to be really dirty in bed.'"
I've found in observing my and my friends' love lives that it seems MOST men are intrigued and very turned on by funny/smart women at first meeting and are dying to take them on in the bedroom. But--and I've actually had men say this exact quote to me about women they were dating--when it comes to a long term commitment, they prefer someone who they don't have to "work to keep up with."
bleah.
p.s. I just LOVE their term "humor-producing women," don't you? Somehow manages to turn the term "funny woman" into something that sounds disgustingly gross--like humor is oozing out of her like a pus. Or as if instead of giving birth to a "natural" child, all she can "produce" is humor. Lovely.
[Hmm. That's even worse. Which reminds me of an ivy-league/old-boys joke from the 1920s. "Girl: Remember me? We met at a pary last fall and you said I was a good sport. Well now I'm pregnant and now I'm going to kill myself!" "Cad: Say, you *are* a good sport!" Whee! Party girls are so disposable. The downside, you know, is that men shouldn't complain if they wind up with dour partners. The laughable thing (pardon the play on words) is that good comedians know that you go flat without someone to trade licks with. Thanks, Syl. --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 17:50.
I do improv comedy. I'm quite funny. People tell me that all the time. I've never had a problem getting laid.
Stupid false belief systems.
[Not to mention forming lasting relationships with an outstanding man. Strike two? --fl]
Submitted by 591 (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 00:58.
Oh, yuck! The short term relationship theory is the most depressing thing I've heard today. I really, really hope it's not why I found so many more men who wanted to take me to bed for the short term than for the long term.
I'm still holding out for the "you always spend most of your time in the slowest traffic lane" theory as to why most people who were interested in me seemed to want no strings attached sex - presumably people who are going for no strings attached sex are hitting more people per capita, and so there will seem to be more of them. Just as it seems as if I'm cursed with the slowest traffic lane because, even if I get the same amount of time in that lane as everyone else, it's time spent in a slow lane, so it adds up.
But I suppose it's possible the "some men want smart/funny women just for flings" theory is right, too :-(. I'd rather be rejected altogether.
[The first part of your theory, your slow-lane explanation for being serially hit on, makes perfect sense and actually accounts for multiple encounters with all kinds of undesirable characters since by definition they have to hit up more suckers to have any luck at all. Just to put things in perspective, though, smart, funny, and otherwise generally attractive people are going to be approached more often by people looking for all kinds of relationships so of course they'll be approached more often for flings as well as long-term relationships. (The trick is figuring out which are which, I guess.) Thanks, Lynn. --fl]